Ep 53: Jenni's Kratom Success: A Chronic Pain and Addiction Recovery Story

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The thing about kratom, are
there withdrawal symptoms?

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Yes.
But it's just like coffee.

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If you stop drinking coffee,
what happens?

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You get a headache.
I'll stop taking kratom.

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My pain comes back.
You know, I feel a little on

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edge because it calms me down,
but it's nothing like coming off

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opiates.
Nothing at all.

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Welcome to Kratom Stories, a
weekly podcast where we share

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stories of how this amazing
plant has changed our lives.

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I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.
Each week I'll bring you a new

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episode featuring interviews
with experts, advocates, and

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everyday people who've
experienced the benefits of

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kratom first hand.
Join me as we dive deeper into

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the world of this botanical
wonder and discover the amazing

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stories behind this incredible
plant.

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The Kratom Stories Podcast is
presented solely for educational

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purposes.
Neither the podcast nor its host

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promote or endorse the use of
kratom, a substance not yet

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regulated or approved by the
FDA.

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The views and opinions expressed
by guests are theirs alone and

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do not necessarily reflect those
of the host or the podcast.

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The content is not intended as a
substitute for professional

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medical advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.

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Always seek the advice of your
physician or other qualified

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healthcare provider with any
questions regarding the use of

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kratom.
I'm here with Jenny, a really

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fabulous lady I met on social
media, So many people.

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I'm connecting with her on
TikTok, which is like the last

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place I'd ever thought I would
meet so many people in our

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kratom community.
But Jenny, I am so glad we

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connected there.
How are you today?

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I am doing wonderful.
Thank you.

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I am so glad to have you come on
the podcast and share your

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kratom story with us.
Let's first start with you

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telling us a little bit about
yourself and life before kratom.

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OK, my name is Jenny, I'm 47 and
I'm from North Carolina.

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I'm currently disabled with
Crohn's disease and multiple

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Sclerosis with major depressive
disorder.

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At 19 years old I was diagnosed
with Crohn's.

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Not only did I have horrid pain
in my stomach but my knees as

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well.
Therefore, my nurse practitioner

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I was seeing at the time decided
to prescribe me some opiates.

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You don't give a 19 year old
child, 'cause I was still a

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child then opiates, but 'cause I
was in the mindset, 1 feels

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good, five feel better.
So I started going down that

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road.
Every couple years they would,

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they would up my dose or change
the medication to something

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stronger.
And I was on pain medication for

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14 years and I was on more
medication than a cancer patient

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and I was still in pain.
I got tired of it.

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I got tired of waking up every
day in pain and pretty much

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chasing that next pill and that
it was everyday thing.

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And there was, I decided to do
research on recovery.

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So I look to a couple
celebrities and I, I won't name

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them 'cause it's a little
embarrassing, but, and, but they

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taught me about recovery and how
I should do it.

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And I figured that the taper
method would be the best option

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for me to come off of the
opiates.

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So I started tapering down.
It's that it took me, it took me

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about a good three or four
months.

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And when I took my last pill, I
took myself to detox.

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I was in detox for five days.
They offered me a mat, which is

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a maintenance drug.
I refused it because I just

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thought it in my head.
I thought it was silly to

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exchange one pill for another.
I know it has saved a lot of

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people's lives.
It's a personal decision.

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I respect everybody's views on
that.

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So don't come after me.
But so I went out of that detox

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on a pink cloud because when
you, because the first 5-6 days

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they're pretty hard.
Your anxieties up, your, you

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know, your depression kicks in,
but you also start feeling

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again.
So I went to an intensive

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outpatient program.
It was a 12 week program that

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taught me about addiction and
I've learned about how I was

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predispositioned to be an
addict, you know, 'cause I have

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addicts in my family.
So I, I just learned a lot about

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addiction and I learned all
about how different drugs

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affects your brain different
ways and learned that my brain

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wasn't going to go back to
normal until about a year

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because it takes time for your
brain to repair.

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So I, I learned a lot going to
that, that outpatient program

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and concurrently going through
the outpatient program.

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I was also going to an NA
meeting, a Narcotics Anonymous,

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and I got me a really good
sponsor, somebody that had a

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couple decades under their belt.
So it was an old timer and she

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really walked me through
everything.

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So being in recovery was very
important to me.

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About six months, six months to
a year, my pain came back

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tenfold and I was desperate.
And my I had a long talk with my

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sponsor and she showed me in the
Blue Book, which is like the

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Bible for the NA group, and it
shows you.

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She showed me the place where it
said that addicts, you need

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something pharmaceutical, that
you're not supposed to suffer.

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But I didn't want to go down
that road again.

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So I'd asked her.
I was like, I was like, can I

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try maybe some medical
marijuana?

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And she was like, that might be
a possibility.

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So I went to a head shop and IA
head shop or a smoke shop,

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whatever you want to call it.
And I met this great elderly

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hippie guy out there and he
introduced me to kratom because

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we sat and talked for about an
hour and he introduced me to

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kratom.
He sold me a bottle instead of

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doing the, the medical
marijuana.

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I was like, OK, well, I will try
this out.

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This sounds a little promising.
You know, it's a plan.

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He said you can get dependent on
it, but it's not an opioid it

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but it, it's, it messes with the
same receptors as the pain

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medication does.
So I thought that was promising.

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So I, I took it home and to my
surprise, it worked.

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And immediately my pain was
lessened and I was relieved.

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Not only did it help with the
pain, it also eliminated some

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symptoms I had with the Crohn's
disease.

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See, for years I had loose
stools.

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I know it's bad to talk about,
but I had it for years with

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Crohn's disease and kratom has
turned that around to where I'm

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having normal bowel movements
now.

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So that was one thing that
shocked me.

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And then another shocking
effects was how it tackled my

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anxiety and depression that
comes along with having a

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chronic illness.
And at the time I only knew

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about the Crohn's.
A year after I got clean, I

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noticed my my dog, my 80 LB dog
was standing on my foot.

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I could not feel the pain.
I knew something was wrong and

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I've watched two other family
members get diagnosed with Ms.

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So I decided to go to a
neurologist and sure enough, I

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had multiple sclerosis and I
caught it extremely early

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because the doctor was my
sister's doctor because me and

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my sister both have it.
And he had me diagnosed within a

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two week period, which is very,
very, very, very rare when

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you're getting diagnosed with
such a big illness.

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But he saw the that I already
had two family members and he

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knew he did that.
It was the genetic factor into

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this.
So I got diagnosed with Ms. you

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know, and I didn't tell any of
my doctors at first about the

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kratom.
And that was, I forgot to tell

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you how long it's been.
So that was coming up on 14

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years clean this coming
February.

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So that was 14 years ago.
So yeah, a lot of people didn't

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know about kratom back then.
But I remember in 2016 how

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scared I was when the FDA was
trying to schedule this drug

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alongside with all the hard
drugs.

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And, you know, our community
came together big time to get

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them to shut that down.
It was a scary time for sure,

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but I'm glad I found it.
I hate the way it looks when you

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Google kratom because all the
propaganda, the negative

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propaganda comes up.
I tried to tell because I've had

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like 3 or 4 friends that I've,
I've had try kratom and they're

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utilizing it now.
But I tried to tell them when

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they first started.
I said don't Google it.

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I said because agencies have put
a negative ad campaigns out on

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this substance and it, you know,
and it's not really a substance

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to me.
It's a plant.

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It's a plant, people.
It's not a drug, it's a plant.

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But yeah.
So this year I'll be celebrating

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14 years clean on February 20th.
So, you know, basically kratom

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gave me my life back.
It really did.

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That's pretty much what
everybody says when I talked to

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them for the podcast that kratom
gave them their life back.

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It did for me as well.
Congrats on your 14 years,

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that's amazing.
That is awesome.

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Your story is so interesting.
I have so many questions.

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When you went to the smoke shop
and the hippie guy talked to you

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about kratom, do you remember
what I know?

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It was a while ago.
Could you remember what it was

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he said that made you want to
try it?

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That made you interested in
trying it?

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Yeah, because I didn't want to.
Because I I've smoked marijuana

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in the past and it's just not my
thing.

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I don't like feeling high.
I don't like, I don't like

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feeling like I don't have
control.

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So it's not my favorite thing.
I like the medicinal properties

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of it.
But yeah, I just, I just saw it

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as like, turmeric gets rid of
inflammation.

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You know, kratom can get rid of
pain.

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You know, I think of it as a
botanical because that's exactly

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what it is.
And back when you started

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kratom, there wasn't a lot of
information out about it, right?

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So I'm sure it was much harder
to research back then.

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Oh yeah, Thank God for Reddit.
You know, I went into the kratom

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community back then and they
taught me everything I wanted to

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know.
There's some snarky Redditors on

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there.
Yes.

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And they're very protective over
kratom, which is understandable

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because a lot of people come at
them and say that kratom kills

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and this and that, and it's,
it's just not true.

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You know, when I first started
taking kratom, you know, the

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hippie guy told me less is more,
which was I'm glad he said that.

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And but I noticed some of my
behaviors coming back of me in

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active addiction with the
opiates.

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So I did the 12 steps all over
again at my 6 month or six year

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mark of being clean just to get
myself in check, just to get my

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behaviors in check 'cause I
noticed I was going through

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'cause I buy my kratom by the
kilo and I noticed I was going

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through it a whole lot quicker
than I used to.

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Usually a kilo will last me
around 2 1/2 three months.

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So but I noticed I was going
through it a lot quicker.

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Did you start with just the
powder or do you start with

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capsules?
Do you remember like how you

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first started with Granum?
Yeah, I started with the

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capsules at first, but then, you
know, the Reddit people really

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got me into thinking why would
you want to have something have

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to does dissolve at your stomach
when you could just go ahead and

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put the real deal and toss and
wash it.

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So I tried it.
It worked quicker.

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It tasted horrible.
But being that it's my 12th year

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on it, then I, I think I'm used
to the taste by now.

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But there are some great
alternatives if you don't like

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the taste of gratum the blade.
Blade Papes.

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Yep.
Those are.

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Cool.
Those little pouches are yeah,

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they are neat, but I just I have
see I have dexterity problems

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with my hands because of my MSI
can't pick up small objects so

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it's kind of hard for me to
enable yeah.

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So I'd rather just do the toss
and watch but.

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Yeah, I can imagine that'd be
the easiest thing to do.

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I am so glad you discovered
kratom through a smoke shop.

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That was somebody that educated
you.

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Because so many times people
tell me when they learn about it

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in a smoke shop, it's usually
just some person working behind

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the counter that doesn't know
very much and they get steered

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in the wrong direction where
they might be selling them an

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extract or just not really
understanding how the the plant

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works.
And I love when I hear stories

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like yours, which is not very
common, but when is someone who

225
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,360
knows enough about the plant
where they can educate you on it

226
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,920
in the store.
And I think that's just so great

227
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,080
that you learn about it through
this shop with the person there

228
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,400
that understood the plant and
could relay that information to

229
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:51,280
you.
Yep.

230
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,880
And I still go and see that
gentleman thrilled to the state.

231
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,640
Oh, yeah, yeah.
He still owns a head shop.

232
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,120
And he's a hippie at heart.
I mean, he loves Kava, he loves

233
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,040
kratom, he loves, you know,
turmeric.

234
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,560
And he's he's very all natural.
But he says he can't put down

235
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,520
the sweets.
So that's where he gets all his

236
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,240
weight because he's a chunkier
guy.

237
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,320
But I still go and see him from
time to time because I the

238
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,080
reason why I connected so much
with him is because he knew what

239
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,920
he was talking about.
He was like, he was like, what's

240
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,960
your ailment?
And I said pain and he said OK I

241
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,360
would suggest the Reds and I
said what's I said I just got

242
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,280
off opiates.
I said what's the strongest red

243
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,760
there is and he told me the main
da.

244
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,560
So I started off with the the
red main da and I'm still on it

245
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,720
to this day.
I've tried other strain and they

246
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,760
just don't work as good on me as
the red main da.

247
00:15:54,760 --> 00:16:01,120
Now I did have a bumpy Rd. with
kratom switching vendors and not

248
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,440
doing my due diligence was one
of the ones that got caught up

249
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:12,880
with the bad batch of salmonella
and that yeah, I got salmonella

250
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,760
and heavy metal poisoning.
Wow, from a bad batch of kratom.

251
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,720
And this was just the guy that
was selling it Willy nilly in

252
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,560
Florida when I was down there on
vacation.

253
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,120
And I didn't add that my normal
people, you've got to make sure

254
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,480
that your vendor is third party
testing for contaminant, for

255
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,680
heavy metals first, Almonella
for purity.

256
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,840
Even extracts scare me.
I don't need anything stronger.

257
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,280
I don't, you know, I don't.
I like what I'm taking now.

258
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,160
It's affordable.
That's the main thing.

259
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,360
It's affordable.
And yeah, my doctors know about

260
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,640
it.
All of my doctors and one doctor

261
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,440
is giving me hoorah like yay.
And that is my Ms. doctor.

262
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,839
He says go for it.
But he's a younger a younger

263
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,319
doctor.
Cause the doctor that diagnosed

264
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,480
me with Ms. he retired about
five years after I got

265
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,480
diagnosed.
So a new guy came in and he was

266
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,240
younger and I told him I said
look I take this plant called

267
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,160
kratom and it helps me with my
pain and my depression and my

268
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,640
anxiety and he said that is
amazing.

269
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,800
He said go for it.
I said OK.

270
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,880
But the other doctor that gives
me the problem is my

271
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:38,960
gastroenterologist because you
have to have to drink plenty of

272
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,800
water with kratom because it can
get it can dry out your colon.

273
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,680
So because I have Crohn's
disease, which is the disease of

274
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:56,080
the colon, and I have Ms. which
can damaged the nerves that my

275
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,400
colons depend on.
Because right now I'm me and my

276
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,320
doctor are trying to figure out
because I've been dealing with a

277
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,360
lot of Constipation here lately.
And we're trying to figure out

278
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:10,680
if the Ms. is causing it or is
it the Crohn's because we don't

279
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,000
know yet.
Because they're afraid that I

280
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,320
might have gastroparesis, which
that means complete shutdown of

281
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,920
the colon.
It's just your colon muscles

282
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,280
don't move anymore.
But I haven't.

283
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,000
The thing about kratom.
Are there withdrawal symptoms?

284
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,080
Yes.
But it's just like coffee.

285
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,760
If you stop drinking coffee,
what happens?

286
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,480
You get a headache.
I'll stop taking kratom.

287
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,800
My pain comes back.
You know, I feel a little on

288
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:43,120
edge because it calms me down,
but it's nothing like coming off

289
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,120
opiates.
Nothing at all.

290
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,080
Now, each person different than
that.

291
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,680
That's my little disclaimer.
I'm glad you mentioned that

292
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,240
because, and I'm sure you get
this, as we all do on social

293
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,200
media, people get on there, they
demonize the plant and they go

294
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,520
on and on about how bad
withdrawals are.

295
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,720
And that is highly addictive.
And with all that you've been

296
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,480
through with narcotics, with
addiction, with recovery and

297
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,880
then consuming kratom, what do
you say about that?

298
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,080
I'd say that there is a big
difference between dependence

299
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:22,520
and addiction.
Now, dependence means that if

300
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,800
your body depends on it to feel
good, to feel normal, because

301
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,480
that's what kratom does for me.
It makes me feel normal.

302
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,840
But addiction, you take it over
an invisible line and you don't

303
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,680
know where that invisible line
is.

304
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,720
So you have to keep your
behaviors in check even when on

305
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,520
kratom.
That's why I tell the people

306
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,040
that I've turned on to kratom.
I said stick with the whole

307
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,320
leaf.
I wouldn't even mess with the

308
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,920
extracts because it's just too
strong.

309
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,080
It's too strong.
All you need is a little bit of

310
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:02,520
this little of the loose leaf.
Whole leaf powder or capsules

311
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,560
and capsules are fine too, but.
And the seven OH is not kratom.

312
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,840
Yeah, so say no to seven O as
Misty Brown says, yeah, those

313
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,360
seven OH, products, that's all
you hear about now are these new

314
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:17,760
products.
To me, it just looks like a

315
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,800
muddy grab.
You know, it's it's new, it's

316
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,400
synthetic, it's strong.
They're going after people that

317
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,760
are young, they're going after
people who already have

318
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,560
addiction issues because it's
just a big muddy grab.

319
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,160
But it's really sad because is
synthesized so technically it's

320
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,680
not kratom but they market it as
kratom.

321
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,480
Right, right.
And it makes our whole leaf

322
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,360
powder kratom look bad, which.
Is terrible, but I've heard it's

323
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,400
it's pretty dangerous too.
Yeah, yeah.

324
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,800
And the researchers are quite
concerned about it, those that

325
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,560
have been researching kratom and
yeah, it's like the government

326
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,960
needs to step in and do
something about this seven.

327
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,520
OH, you know.
Oh yeah, I think so too.

328
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,680
But we know that the FDA doesn't
want to do anything.

329
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,840
I want to go back to when you
first started you with kratom,

330
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,520
you said that like immediately
you saw results.

331
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,040
Like was it day one that you
just started seeing great

332
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,320
results from using it?
For me, it was because that's

333
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,040
how bad my pain was.
Yeah, you know, I would have so

334
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,160
much pain in my knees.
I mean, it took a little bit to

335
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,360
kick in, but I stayed by my
second or third dose that day

336
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,600
because he told me to start off
with just two doses.

337
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,760
And I was like, I didn't feel
anything after the second dose.

338
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,600
So I waited a couple hours and
then I took a third dose and and

339
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,880
then I could feel the pain just
lifting and it was amazing.

340
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,160
I could not believe it.
But I just wish people will quit

341
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,480
vilifying this plant and I'm so
glad with that documentary came

342
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,560
out the leaf of faith.
Yes, such a good documentary

343
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,920
that came out in, I think it was
either late 2018 or maybe early

344
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:03,800
2019.
I discovered it in 2019, back

345
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,600
when it was a Netflix
documentary.

346
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,240
It's no longer on Netflix, but
it's available on YouTube and

347
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,280
I'll put a link to it in the
show notes for this episode.

348
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,840
But yeah, what do you think?
Like for many of us in the

349
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,160
community, that was our first
experience hearing about kratom

350
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,880
was from that documentary.
But you were already consuming

351
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,760
it.
So did you find that that was

352
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,320
really nice to have a
documentary about to the public

353
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:27,840
about the plant that you
consume?

354
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,360
I was so excited.
I was so excited because first

355
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,200
of all, my parents, they didn't
know what kratom was.

356
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,520
They didn't, you know, they told
me, well, opiate or opium is a

357
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,400
plant too.
And I'm like, gosh, so I had to

358
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,920
explain to them.
I was like, it's in the coffee

359
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,560
family, mom and dad, you know,
it's, you know, the only side

360
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,720
effect that I've had with it is
if I don't keep up with my water

361
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,120
intake, I get constipated.
That's it, you know, and if I

362
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,680
don't take it, my pain comes
back and I feel a little on

363
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,280
edge.
I'm not the happiest person, but

364
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,600
I, I'm not like when I was in
detox, I was running the halls.

365
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,400
My nerves were shot.
I just wanted to walk out of

366
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,960
that detox.
But I was locked in because the

367
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,640
detox here in North Carolina,
they're mixed in with the mental

368
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,600
health patients.
And it's a little scary.

369
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,720
There was a couple of scary
people in there, but, you know,

370
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,320
they're all just trying to get
through life like I am.

371
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,640
So, you know, and I wanted to go
through a medically supervised

372
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,960
detox because I knew they locked
you in there because I've tried

373
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,760
to get off of opiates before by
myself and it just didn't work.

374
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,320
So I knew I needed to be
hospitalized for at least a

375
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,720
week.
But the doctor or the

376
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,280
psychiatrist said that I was
good to go after five days as

377
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,920
long as I promised to go to the
intensive outpatient program,

378
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,640
which I did.
And they drug tested you before

379
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,840
every class to make sure you
have it used and, you know,

380
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,400
teach you about addiction and
recovery.

381
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,200
And, you know, it really opened
my eyes that you have to watch

382
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,080
your behaviors.
And and that goes with anything

383
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,360
that's addictive, sugar,
cigarettes, vaping, if you do

384
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,880
something too much, everything
in moderation in life, you know,

385
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,600
I have a little bit of sugar,
have a, you know, but don't go

386
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,560
all in, you know, so.
That's great.

387
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,840
That's.
Just yeah, everything in

388
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,320
moderation.
Another question I have for you

389
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,800
is how would you compare the
pain relief you got back when

390
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,200
you were using opiates for for
pain relief versus kratom for

391
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,160
your pain relief?
Good question.

392
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,480
When I was on opiates, I wasn't
there.

393
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,080
I wasn't present.
If you take too much opiates,

394
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,280
you nod off, you go to sleep.
You're just not.

395
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,200
You're a shell of a person.
You just, but you love the

396
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,720
feeling of that high and that it
was rough getting off of it

397
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,440
because you know, I've, I've
done every experimented with

398
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,120
drugs in the past and I've tried
all the other stuff because I

399
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:21,480
was a raver back in the 90s.
So I've tried and dabbled in

400
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,360
everything, but I always came
back to opiates.

401
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,400
And so that was my drug of
choice.

402
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,640
I just, but with kratom, it just
makes me feel like me.

403
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,000
I feel present, I feel feelings
again.

404
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,760
It's just, it opens your eyes
about what these pharmaceutical

405
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,080
companies are doing.
You know, 'cause like I said,

406
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,840
the map programs for the
maintenance drugs for people

407
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,120
coming off of opiates.
To me, in my opinion, I think

408
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,480
trading one pill for another
pill is that's their way of

409
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,400
keeping you in the
pharmaceutical realm when

410
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,640
there's other alternatives out
there.

411
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,560
Yeah, I totally get that.
And I hear that from a lot of

412
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,920
people.
When you started kratom, how did

413
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,680
it end up like impacting like
your day-to-day life?

414
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,000
I mean, because, you know, so
many times people say they'll

415
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,560
start using kratom for pain
relief and then all of a sudden

416
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,600
they realized like that their
anxieties reduce.

417
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,400
They don't feel depressed.
Like it just lifts so much.

418
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,240
It just does more than just
help, for one thing.

419
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,880
How?
How was your experience with

420
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,640
that?
Well, yeah, when I first started

421
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,880
I felt more energetic.
This is when I was walking

422
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:43,240
normal because now with my Ms.,
I've got a drop foot and I, I

423
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,080
have to use a rollator to walk
around now because that's just

424
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,520
the nature of this disease.
But when I caught my Ms.

425
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:57,640
extremely early, so I had a good
six or seven years of walking

426
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,520
normal.
So I worked my tail off.

427
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,360
Me and my husband owned a
designated driving company where

428
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,880
we took drunk people and their
cars on.

429
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,960
I felt like we were giving back
to the community, you know, and

430
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,360
kratom allowed me to do that
because I could concentrate and

431
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,160
I could, you know, because
running a business isn't easy,

432
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,280
especially when you're dealing
with drunk people.

433
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,120
But and, you know, and we got
pretty, a pretty good profit

434
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:29,640
margin off of running that
company that we actually bought

435
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,320
a party bus.
And we had a party bus for about

436
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,240
a good four or five years.
And then here comes Uber and

437
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,440
Lyft and they kind of killed our
business, even though we had a

438
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,600
niche where we took your car
home because there's two of us,

439
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,600
one drives your car and the
other person follows in their

440
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,760
car.
So people loved it, but it was

441
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,680
too much money because you had
to pay two people, but with Lyft

442
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,800
you only have to pay 1.
So that kind of ruined my

443
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,160
business.
But that was the last thing I

444
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,800
did until the stress from owning
those two companies.

445
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,440
We had them for 11 years.
The stress of those two

446
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,360
companies kind of did my health
in and my health started

447
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520
declining and my walking got
worse.

448
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,520
Because that's the main thing
that bothers me with my Ms. is

449
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,760
my walking because now I can
walk short distances, but I

450
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,840
can't walk long distances.
So I have to use the wheelchair.

451
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,360
But I try to get up and exercise
every day because if you don't

452
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:36,640
use it, you lose it.
So I try to do something little

453
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,560
each day and kratom helps me out
it.

454
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760
It really does.
But right now I'm on a break

455
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,480
until I can figure out what's
going on with my intestines,

456
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:51,000
never my colon.
So this is the drug, if sorry,

457
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,520
not a drug.
This is a plant.

458
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,320
You can stop and start and
you'll be OK.

459
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,960
You will be just fine.
You might have a couple of

460
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,480
uncomfortable days, but that's
OK.

461
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,360
It is nothing like an opioid
withdrawal.

462
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,880
So I kind of miss it because my
pain is back in my knees right

463
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,640
now, but but I got to do what's
best for me.

464
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,840
So right now I'm I've eased off
of it.

465
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,600
So I haven't taken it in three
days because we're trying to get

466
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,160
this figured out.
Yeah, that makes sense.

467
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,960
And yeah, it's good that you're
doing that and not suffering

468
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,400
through withdrawals as if it was
an opiate, which you've been

469
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,280
through.
Yeah.

470
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,240
And you you can talk first hand
about versus social media, why I

471
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,000
heard this and I heard that it's
like, I'm going to listen to the

472
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,360
person that has first hand
experience, which in this

473
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,920
situation is you telling us, you
know, through your experience.

474
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,640
My next question is when you are
normally consuming your Kratom,

475
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,800
not not like right now on a
break, but when you're

476
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,680
currently, you know, consuming
your kratom, what's your routine

477
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,640
usually like?
Is this like you're taking it

478
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,960
every day or you're taking it
multiple times a day?

479
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,680
What?
What is that like for you?

480
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,600
OK, usually I wake up in the
morning, I take just a little

481
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,560
teaspoon in the morning with my
coffee and I chase it down with

482
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,320
it's called MCT oil.
What it does is it helps nourish

483
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,880
or hydrate your colon and it's
it's a non flavored oil.

484
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,880
So I chase it down with that and
then some water, 'cause he got

485
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,040
to make sure to drink a lot of
water, 'cause, you know, my gut

486
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,680
gets slower with kratom.
But I do that.

487
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,880
And then usually about about
2:00 I'll dose again.

488
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,080
And then before dinner I'll dose
again and usually just a little

489
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,760
teaspoon and that's all I need.
And that's not much you you're

490
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,800
not even considering a large
amount my dose.

491
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,440
Is 2 two teaspoons?
You're like double.

492
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,080
Yeah, because when I first
started, yeah, when I first

493
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,520
started, I was taking
tablespoons and that's when I

494
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,840
started.
Yeah, that's when I started.

495
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,880
I was talking to my counselor or
my sponsor about it and she was

496
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,440
like, we need to do the 12 steps
again.

497
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,960
She was like, I've noticed
something a little different

498
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,520
with you here lately.
And sure enough, I had some more

499
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,080
behaviors that popped back up
and I was over consuming it

500
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,440
thinking that it would make me
feel better and it doesn't.

501
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,400
If you ever get the wobbles with
kratom, it's not fun.

502
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:35,160
Because when I hear these news
reports saying kratom is a

503
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,680
reason someone has passed away,
it's usually malarkey.

504
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,240
Because if you look at the toxic
report or what do they call?

505
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,040
Yeah, toxicity.
Report, toxicity report, There

506
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,560
you go.
I can't remember the name.

507
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,640
They usually have other drugs in
their system and it could even

508
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,160
be over the counter drugs.
You know, you've got to be

509
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,000
careful what you're taking with
anything because when I first

510
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,000
got cleaned, I was, I had no
trust in doctors anymore.

511
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,520
And I look up every medication I
take.

512
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,000
I look at the side effects that
I see how I act, you know, And I

513
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,000
remember one time my, my Ms.
doctor wanted to start me on

514
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,720
DMT, which is a disease
modifying drug.

515
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,640
That's what slows down the
progression of Ms. He wanted to

516
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,040
start me on Baclofen, which is a
muscle relaxer.

517
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:35,040
And he wanted me to start on
gabapentin for because I had

518
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,360
really bad neuropathy in both
feet.

519
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,880
And I said, I said I'm not
taking all of those drugs at

520
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,800
once.
I said there's no way because

521
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,720
when you start taking any type
type of pharmaceutical you want

522
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,480
to be able to pinpoint which
drug is doing what.

523
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,120
Like if like if Baclofen gave me
Constipation then I knew it was

524
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,880
the Baclofen that did it.
And for the gabapentin that was

525
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,440
the worst thing I could have
ever gotten on because it made

526
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,760
me dizzy.
I would fall at least once a

527
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,600
week because I'm a very high
risk fall patient.

528
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,960
Every time I'm in the hospital I
have an alarm under me where I

529
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,240
can't get up by myself or an
alarm goes off and I've been

530
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,240
hospitalized probably 4 times
since.

531
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,320
I've been diagnosed with Ms.
since 2010.

532
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,360
I love that we've connected on
social media and how active you

533
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,680
are with connecting with others
and and just sharing your voice,

534
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,880
being an advocate.
So you do that because I see you

535
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,640
on TikTok and you're using other
social media, right?

536
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,480
Are you using that to connect
with other kratom consumers?

537
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,680
Oh yeah, mainly TikTok and
Facebook because when I first

538
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,040
started using kratom, I came
across the AKA page and I met

539
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,480
the woman who was renting it and
she helped me out with every

540
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,560
question that I had.
So she helped me out.

541
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,840
The people on Reddit helped me
out.

542
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,520
So it was just like it all came
together at perfect timing.

543
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,880
It was like, you know, God works
in mysterious ways.

544
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,159
Yeah, I really credit social
media with helping me discover

545
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:25,239
so many amazing people in our
community because we're all on

546
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,600
there talking about kratom and
how much is helping us and then

547
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,800
finding each other.
I it's interesting how with the

548
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,560
kratom gals I host with Misty
Brown, Venus Escher, and

549
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,719
Jennifer Gillis, we all met on X
early last year, like early

550
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,560
2023.
And I get on Tiktok last year

551
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,199
and then I meet so many people
over there that are fellow

552
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:51,520
kratom consumers and people
looking to learn about kratom

553
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,280
from the pain community.
Are you finding that on Tiktok

554
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,160
as well where you like people
see you talking about it and

555
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,720
they have questions?
Well, I really haven't.

556
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,840
I do have it on my profile that
I am a kratom advocate like so

557
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,120
just to have that on there just
in case somebody has a question

558
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,560
about it.
And like what is that?

559
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,880
But I found a lot of Ms.
patients and a lot of Crohn's

560
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,200
patients and, and a lot of
chronic pain patients because

561
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,440
one of one of my really good
friends has CRPSCRPS is called

562
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,840
the S disease, you know, the
underlying disease because it is

563
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,960
so painful.
And she's one of the ones that I

564
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,720
help try kratom.
And she says it takes off the

565
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,520
edge.
She says it doesn't completely

566
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,120
cure her pain because it's so
deep, but it does help her and

567
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,640
it does cut her back from the
harder drugs where she doesn't

568
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,800
need them.
Yeah.

569
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,600
I'm really amazed at how well my
pain level has been reduced from

570
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,560
this plant, kratom versus all
the high-powered opioids I used

571
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,080
to take when I was in pain
management.

572
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,640
Oh, yeah.
And that's one of the reasons

573
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,440
why I'm such a loud, proud
advocate for this plant because

574
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,000
that's how it's completely
changed my life because in pain

575
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,520
management for nine years,
taking all those opioids, while

576
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,880
they helped, I still was in pain
a lot.

577
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,880
Like it helped some but not
tremendously.

578
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,080
And then I discover kratom and
it's like I forget that I suffer

579
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,320
from chronic pain.
Like it helps my pain that much

580
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,160
which is mind blowing.
And another thing that is very

581
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,040
important is don't take kratom
with an opiate.

582
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,920
It's silly because they'll
cancel each other out.

583
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:47,640
It's just like, 'cause I've had
surgeries, major surgeries, and

584
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,800
they've given me, you know, like
I'm pretty powerful.

585
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,720
I don't want to name the drugs,
but pretty powerful painkillers.

586
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,560
I, I filled the script, I took
it home and then I took my

587
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,520
Kratom and it works so much
better.

588
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,880
And they couldn't believe how
much quicker I got back on my

589
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,720
feet because this was during a
leg surgery.

590
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,720
I had a leg and knee surgery,
yeah.

591
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:16,880
I've heard other people say the
same.

592
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,240
Thing 'cause you're not doped up
on opiates, you know you can

593
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:25,160
actually get up and start
exercising instead of sleeping

594
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,840
all day cause a lot of times
those high-powered opioids will

595
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,200
knock you out.
Right.

596
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,160
So which is slowing down your
recovery?

597
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,720
That's such a great point.
So I had a foot surgery about

598
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:41,840
four years ago.
So my kratom journey started 5

599
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,520
1/2 years ago.
So I was already in my kratom

600
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,960
journey.
I had a scheduled foot surgery

601
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,080
and the doctor was really great.
She had a whole pain plan for me

602
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,040
afterwards and and prescribed
opiates.

603
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,600
I didn't fill them.
It was just, you know, an

604
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,000
outpatient surgical procedure
When I got home, made sure

605
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,600
there's enough hours where I
felt like the narcotics were on

606
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,520
my system from being knocked out
for the procedure.

607
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,440
But then I went right back to my
kratom and recovered very well.

608
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,280
And same thing when I had my
appendix out years ago as well.

609
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,680
I think we recover faster and
better because, like what you're

610
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,120
saying, we're not doped up and
sleeping.

611
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:23,320
You know, we're able to get the
pain relief and also be active.

612
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:24,440
Yeah.
Move around.

613
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,320
That's one of the great benefits
with kratom I love is just that

614
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,200
nice little energy boost you
get.

615
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:31,840
Yeah.
And now the only thing that I

616
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,840
can tell you that in my
experience is if you have an

617
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,680
abdominal surgery, you're going
to take a couple months off

618
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,720
kratom because you've got to let
your stomach and your colon or

619
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,400
whatever you had.
Because I had a hernia repair

620
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:53,200
this summer and I was off kratom
for I would say at least three

621
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,920
months.
And then I had an ileus.

622
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,720
An ileus is a twisted bowel.
So I had to go back under the

623
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,000
knife that same week.
So I had two surgeries

624
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,160
back-to-back, and then I didn't
have food for 3 1/2 weeks.

625
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,160
Oh, I got really weak.
Yeah, I got really weak 'cause I

626
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,720
had to have bowel rest, which
you get fed through a tube or an

627
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,600
IV, and it made me so weak.
And then I lost my ability to

628
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,360
walk 'cause I was just so weak,
'cause I hadn't had food.

629
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,680
I haven't had water.
I couldn't have food.

630
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,320
I couldn't have water, nothing.
And then I went to a nursing

631
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,480
facility for 23 days and worked
my butt off and learned to walk

632
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,840
again.
So.

633
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,720
You've been through a lot.
I know and I'm only 47.

634
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,080
I'm like, but I, I, I understand
elderly people 'cause my body is

635
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,480
like an elderly person.
Well, you have a great attitude

636
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,560
with everything you've been
through so.

637
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,200
Oh yeah.
I'm so glad you've come on this

638
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,040
podcast to Share your story
because these stories help so

639
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,360
many people.
And I'm sure there's some people

640
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,720
listening to this right now, and
it's giving them some hope with

641
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,560
the things they're going they're
going through right now.

642
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,200
I have one last question for
you.

643
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,000
This is such a great interview.
I really appreciate you spending

644
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,080
time with me, Jenny, and sharing
this knowing, yeah, you know a

645
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,920
lot about kratom.
You've been consuming it for a

646
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,520
very long time now, knowing all
the things you know about it.

647
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,080
What advice?
I mean you, this is something

648
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,360
you do do you do advise people
that are just starting?

649
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,920
But what?
What advice do you give to

650
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,360
someone to help them get started
in their journey?

651
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,680
OK, I always tell them less is
better.

652
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,080
That's number one.
I said.

653
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,080
You know, you don't want to get
the wobbles as the worst feeling

654
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,760
in the world, so I say less is
better.

655
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,160
Start off small and then if you
don't notice anything after a

656
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:52,120
couple doses, then you can
possibly move up to a little bit

657
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,200
more because when I started I
was taking half a teaspoon and

658
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,880
then I moved up to a teaspoon
because I noticed it wasn't

659
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,400
really working that much or no.
I started off with capsules and

660
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,000
then when I started the powder
then I did the half a teaspoon

661
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,200
because I didn't know, you know,
how much was in a capsule.

662
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,920
And also, do you do diligence on
the vendors you buy?

663
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,920
I would recommend not to go to
local smoke shops because the

664
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,600
people behind the counter are
just there to sell a product

665
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,880
that's not their niche.
They have D8 and they've that

666
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,920
cava and they've got, you know,
they've got, they're selling

667
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,000
everything.
Try to find a vendor that third

668
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:42,040
party test and make sure to get
a hard copy of their test and

669
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:47,160
any responsible kratom vendor
will have that for you on hand

670
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,600
Just showed you that every time
they get a batch in they third

671
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,240
party test a little sample out
of it because you don't want to

672
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,000
go.
What I went through with the

673
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,360
salmonella and the heavy metal
toxicity.

674
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,720
That was not fun, having the
health department in my house.

675
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,520
Oh wow.
Because that, yeah, the local

676
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,160
health department came over and
interviewed me to see where it

677
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,640
was coming from.
Wow, Yep.

678
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,520
Well, these are all great tips
that you're sharing.

679
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,440
I have a question because you
mentioned the wobbles.

680
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,760
How would you describe?
Because people have asked me

681
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,120
what what are the wobbles?
My usual answer is you'll know.

682
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,960
So you just want to you'll know.
How do you like describe the

683
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,880
wobbles to somebody?
It's hard, right it?

684
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,680
Is it's.
Like, you know when you're in

685
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,320
it, you know when it happens.
It's like you're it's a little

686
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:43,160
bit of dizziness and it's a
little bit of hyperactivity.

687
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,800
That's what I noticed.
And it depends on the strain

688
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,440
that you're taking to you like
the red is more sedative, the

689
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,360
green is more uplifting.
And I've had the wobbles on the

690
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,360
green and the white strains, but
not so much on the red.

691
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:05,440
But I have had one time I had it
on the red and that's when I was

692
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,280
taking.
I think I took a tablespoon and

693
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,760
a half one time.
It was from taking too.

694
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,960
Much.
That was a big mistake, Yeah.

695
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,280
But all you got to do is just
drink a lot of fluids, relax,

696
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,960
lay down, take a nap, and when
you wake up you'll feel OK.

697
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,360
Yeah, it goes away pretty quick.
I liked your advice of staying

698
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,720
away from smoke shops if
possible because you're so

699
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,200
right, it's usually just a
person just working there that

700
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,600
that is not.
I mean you lucked out with it

701
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,440
being an owner that really cared
and was able to answer.

702
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,560
But it's so rare that I hear
that.

703
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,600
And I just recently a few weeks
ago had Cassie on the podcast.

704
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,480
It was episode 51 talking about
her recovery story and how she

705
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,280
discovered kratom.
And sadly she went to a smoke

706
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,080
shop.
She didn't know anything and the

707
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,760
person at the counter just
pointed to some capsules.

708
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,360
She bought it not realizing
there were extract capsules.

709
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,640
So it was the powder extract.
So she was taking that for a

710
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,800
while.
Finds my podcast on Spotify.

711
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,120
Here's that.
And then finds the cratum gals

712
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,080
and here.
So it's talking about like, be

713
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,600
careful with extracts that
really you just want the whole

714
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,720
leaf powder.
And she was horrified to look at

715
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,720
the package and realize, Oh my
gosh, these were extract

716
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,320
capsules.
So it's like you really have to

717
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,320
arm yourself with knowledge and
know exactly what you're taking

718
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,200
and make sure you don't start
with extracts of any kind

719
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,360
because it can be powder.
It's not just those little

720
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,000
bottles of liquid.
I mean, there's extract powders

721
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,600
and I know those are pretty
popular in smoke shops, but you

722
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,440
know, educating yourself and
doing research, but still being

723
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,760
careful on Google because Google
has so much misinformation and

724
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,000
propaganda.
It does.

725
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,800
I always tell people go to
kratomanswers.org.

726
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,080
That is a great website the
American Krame Association put

727
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,800
out that has a lot of the
science back to face the

728
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,080
science, the facts of like what
kratom is and the research

729
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,240
behind it.
I think that's a great starting

730
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,440
point for anybody that wants to
learn more about what exactly is

731
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,000
kratom.
Right.

732
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,120
Yeah.
And see, I didn't know it.

733
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,320
They didn't have that website
back then when I first started,

734
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,200
and that's why I went to Reddit.
And so I learned from the users

735
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,960
because you're not going to
learn from someone that's never

736
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,600
used it, right?
You got to learn from someone

737
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,080
that has.
Yeah, and they're so common on

738
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,280
social media to get this.
I heard so and so where I heard

739
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,000
you.
Like I had friends that went

740
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,360
through.
It's like, no, you want to

741
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,480
listen to the people who've
actually been through the

742
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,840
things.
And for me, it was some Facebook

743
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:44,200
groups when I discovered kratom
in 2019 and people that were

744
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,240
sharing first hand experience
with using kratom and that was

745
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:51,680
where I got a lot of information
and it was so helpful.

746
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,800
So it's important.
That's why I put so much

747
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,800
information out with this
podcast with the Kratom Real

748
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,200
Talk community that you're a
part of with the Kratom Gals

749
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,880
live stream series.
I'm just trying to put out as

750
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,200
much real and accurate
information from those of us

751
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,240
that are first hand consumers of
the plant so people can get

752
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:15,000
educated and make.
Very welcoming to the outsiders

753
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,720
because that's the one thing
with the kratom community

754
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,080
they're very protective of the
plant and they kind of there's

755
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,000
some snarky people on Reddit
they will they would jump down

756
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,080
you if you say that there's
withdrawals because there are

757
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,120
there are a little bit of
withdrawals just like coffee

758
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,680
just.
Like coffee, it's like, yeah,

759
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,600
exactly, exactly.
It's that that level, you know,

760
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,320
not opiate withdrawal level if
you.

761
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,360
If you go through keto and you
stop eating sugar, you get the

762
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,160
keto flu.
That's the same thing.

763
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,240
Yeah.
So whenever you stop a substance

764
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,640
and that your body's depended
on, it's going to have a little

765
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,960
bit of woom in it.
You just got to wait till.

766
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:01,720
Your body adjusts.
Yeah.

767
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,440
Jenny, this been such a great
conversation.

768
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,480
Thank you so much for spending
time and doing this with me.

769
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,320
I really appreciate your time
today.

770
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,760
Thank you for listening.
You can get more information at

771
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,680
kratomstoriespodcast.com,
including show notes from this

772
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:20,240
episode.