Ep 56: Jennifer Gillis: Kratom, Chronic Pain, and the Power of Advocacy

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I don't define myself by my
disability anymore.

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Like there's a lot of stuff I'll
never do and that's cool.

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Like that's fine with me.
I've learned to live with it.

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But you know, just not being
miserable and in chronic pain

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every single day is like, you
know, 100 LB weight lifted off

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my shoulders for the last 5 1/2
years.

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And so to me, that's just
awesome.

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It actually takes the pain away
instead of just making you OK to

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live with it I guess.
Welcome to Kratom Stories, a

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weekly podcast where we share
stories of how this amazing

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plant has changed our lives.
I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.

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Each week I'll bring you a new
episode featuring interviews

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with experts, advocates, and
everyday people who've

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experienced the benefits of
kratom first hand.

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Join me as we dive deeper into
the world of this botanical

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wonder and discover the amazing
stories behind this incredible

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plant.
The Kratom Stories Podcast is

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presented solely for educational
purposes.

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Neither the podcast nor its host
promote or endorse the use of

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kratom, a substance not yet
regulated or approved by the

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FDA.
The views and opinions expressed

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by guests are theirs alone and
do not necessarily reflect those

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of the host or the podcast.
The content is not intended as a

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substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or

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treatment.
Always seek the advice of your

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physician or other qualified
healthcare provider with any

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questions regarding the use of
kratom.

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Before we dive into today's
episode, I want to let you know

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about Kratom Real Talk.
It's a new community for

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positive, uplifting discussions
about the power of whole leaf

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kratom.
If you'd like to be part of the

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conversation and learn more
about this plate or contribute

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your knowledge, go to
kratomrealtalk.com.

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So I'm here with Jennifer
Gillis, I had her on the podcast

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a while back.
She's created on the Stories

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podcast episode #3 I wanted to
bring her back on and talk more

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about her as a kratom consumer
and advocate.

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And she's part of the Kratom
Gals, my cool live stream series

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I started a year ago.
Jennifer, thank you so much for

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coming back on the podcast.
Thank you for having me.

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It's it's been quite a year, but
I'm glad to be here.

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Yeah.
And you know, when I first

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interviewed you for the podcast,
even though I launched it a year

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ago, which would be December
2023, I actually interviewed you

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way before that because I was
like interviewing people really

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far in advance, trying to just
kind of build up some episodes

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and have them ready.
I think I interviewed like that

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previous summer.
So that'd be like, you never

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have a job.
It was a.

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Long.
Time ago and.

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That was before we started the
live stream series and, you

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know, you weren't really doing
much video stuff yet.

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You've got a podcast before, or
was that your first one?

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I did one with Wade Harmon.
Well, I think I did 2 with him,

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but I mean, still I was not
comfortable at all, you know,

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But it's comfortable as can be
now.

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So it's interesting to see how
this will contrast compared to

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the first one.
Well, you know, practice makes

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perfect, you know that's right.
And, you know, just doing more

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of these types of things, you
are definitely a lot more

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comfortable on camera and just
chatting and doing this.

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I think it's so easy when you're
new to advocating and like being

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on camera and doing all this
stuff is different.

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You know, we're not used to that
and you don't.

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And you feel like, Oh my gosh,
people are going to be looking

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at me.
What do I say?

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What do I do?
And am I going to freeze up?

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Like am I going to mess up?
And really, at the end of the

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day, it's like people just want
to hear what you have.

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To say, I mean, and also at the
end of the day, I mean, what

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matters is the message that
you're getting out.

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I mean, who cares if people pick
on your.

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And you know, honestly, the
community is awesome.

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Everybody's really supportive.
And I try to be supportive of

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everybody else, especially if
they're new, because it is it's

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overwhelming.
And a lot of people are just

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used to being on camera and used
to doing things like, and I've

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just never been a video person.
So it's a lot of getting used

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to.
But yeah, the messages are so

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important that I felt like I
needed to, and I'm glad I did.

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I'm glad you started the kratom
gals and the Twitter space that

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everything kratom real talk.
Got a lot going on.

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Here.
Our community is, you know, but

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I come from building online
communities.

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I've been doing that since the
90s.

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So I have a lot of experience of
like how to start it, how to

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lead, how to bring people
together.

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I've built so many different
online communities in these past

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3 decades.
And because I'm a kratom

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consumer myself and it's like,
OK, I got to get something

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started for our community.
I, I would have done it sooner

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since I've been consuming it for
5 1/2 years.

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But I was taking care of my mom
for those first four years of my

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kratom journey.
And I was just so bogged down

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taking care of my mom who's
elderly with medical issues and,

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you know, in her last phase of
life.

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So it was, it was a lot to deal
with.

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I was a very excited kratom
consumer and quiet advocate.

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We can all quiet advocate,
right?

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We can all contact our
legislators, we can get the AKA

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the American Crime Association's
newsletters and always be up on

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what's going on.
We can connect with each other

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on social media.
But really wasn't until I was

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out of that chapter of my life
before it's like, OK, I'm ready

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to start the podcast.
I'm ready to start a live X Used

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to be Twitter chat, little
spaces audio chat.

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Want to do some Tik toking and
live streaming and look where we

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are now.
You know, here's been a whole

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year of doing all these advocacy
things and you've been right

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next to me all this time.
You like very active in all the

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different things I've done to
bring our community together.

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I appreciate that.
Yeah, I feel like the community

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needed you.
I feel like you're like that

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puzzle piece that fit in.
So I'm really glad now.

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You know, I know it was probably
really hard to deal with all

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that with your mom and
everything, but I think it's

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good too that you had something
to kind of keep your mind busy

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after and you put a lot of time
and energy into it so.

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I do, but it's just that's just
how I am.

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It's just how and because of
kratom I can that's.

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Right.
It gives me the pain relief and

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the energy to do all these
things.

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I'm definitely a testament to
that, that like you can do it,

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you know, because of kratom,
which is awesome.

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And I love that about this
plant.

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So I love that you're really big
with advocacy like me and

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there's so many of us in the
community and it is a great.

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I mean, you're so right.
We have such a great community

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with people that are fellow
kratom consumers and I love that

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you're such a part of this with
us.

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Even though we've had you on the
podcast, you're episode number 3

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of the Kratom Stories podcast.
Let's still kind of backtrack a

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little bit and talk a little bit
about your past.

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People can listen to the the
previous episode to get the

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fuller.
Well, how about an abbreviated

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version of you telling us a
little bit about yourself and

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life before kratom?
Well, the reason I started

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consuming kratom is I have a
neurological autoimmune disease

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called transverse myelitis.
It's really it's, it's like the

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cousin of Ms. It's 3 lesions on
my spinal cord.

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And I was diagnosed in 2005.
I had to think about that.

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It was right after my middle son
was born.

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But, you know, I woke up one day
paralyzed from the neck down and

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finally got diagnosed with
transverse myelitis.

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And with that came chronic pain.
And so for years and years and

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years, I was on chronic pain
medication.

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I tried everything, you know,
fentanyl patches, oxycodone,

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hydrocodone.
I could, I'm trying to think of

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everything.
But, you know, I did

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acupuncture, I did the steroid
shots.

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I mean, I tried everything to
control my pain, but nothing

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really took it away.
I mean, you know, the narcotics

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and everything dulled the pain
and it would make me be able to

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like live, But I mean, I was
really unhappy.

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I got pregnant with my third
kiddo and goodness gracious,

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2011.
And at that time I had to get

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off everything, everything cold
Turkey.

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And so after I had my kid, I'm
like, oh, OK, I'll just go back

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to, you know, the, the doctor
and get back on all the pain

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meds.
And that didn't happen, you

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know, because all the DA
cutbacks and the new laws and,

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and whatnot.
And so I finally got prescribed

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5 milligram hydrocodone twice a
day.

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So that's nothing.
Like when you're.

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And that is, yeah, it's like
nothing.

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That's nothing.
So I was running out of pain

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medicine every month.
I started drinking alcohol to

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try and take care of the pain.
That only made it way worse.

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Like it made my life hell.
It really did.

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And so, you know, I'd be in
withdrawal every month from

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running out of pain meds.
I mean, it was just like a

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really shitty life to live.
And I found out about kratom

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through a friend of mine.
His mom had been taking it for a

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couple years for Crohn's.
And I mean, at this point, I was

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ready to try anything.
If I could have, if I knew where

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to go, I would have went, you
know, on the streets.

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I mean, when you live like that,
you just, you're so tired of

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just living like that.
But yeah, I'm like, I'll, I'll

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try it.
And boy, I could not believe

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like, because in my head I'm
thinking now there's no way a

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plant is going to do any, you
know, I've tried all this stuff.

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But yeah, I mean, the first two
weeks I didn't even say anything

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to anybody like around me
because I didn't want to like

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jinx it.
I thought, oh, maybe it's just,

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you know, it's going to wear
off.

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You know, there's no way.
Maybe I'm just having a few good

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days or something.
But it, it was amazing.

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I was, it's, it was amazing.
And not only did it take care of

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my chronic pain, but I started
noticing that I didn't have that

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urge to drink all the time.
And so, you know, I started

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looking into, I really, I did
some research, but I mean, I, I

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found a lot of negative things
online when I did search it.

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And so I was a little bit
scared, you know, when I first

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started, I didn't join a
Facebook group, right?

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I kind of just winged it.
The lady that told me about it,

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you know, she told me to start
off taking one teaspoon and but

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yeah, I looked into it.
I'm like, oh, so people do take

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this for alcohol to stop
drinking alcohols and like,

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well, two birds, one stone, pain
relief.

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Pain relief and stopping
alcohol, That's great.

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Yeah, I mean, you can't beat
that.

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And so, you know, I mean, wow,
what a it was just such a an

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awesome change.
So I everywhere I went, kratom,

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kratom, kratom, kratom,
everybody in my house knew all

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about kratom.
I would just constantly talk

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about it.
I mean, it was awesome.

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And I still to this day, you
know, 5 1/2 years later, I'm

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still just in awe by how much it
really, I mean it just gives me,

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it gave me my life back.
It gave me a second chance.

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So it's amazing how this plant
does that.

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And I hear that from people all
the time.

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And our stories are so similar
because I did not believe

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there's a way a plant would help
with my pain.

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I have really debilitating
chronic pain.

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And it's like, there's no way a
plant's going to take the place

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of all these narcotics.
There's no way.

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And even if it does take the
place, because you know when

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they will get the scripts
anymore, it's like, I was

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probably like barely do
anything.

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Because you just don't think of
plant medicine as something that

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replaces a heavy narcotic,
right?

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Right, right.
And I mean, it's just, you know,

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00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,600
it's, I mean, comparing it,
let's say to compare it to the

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00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,000
narcotics, it's not something
that you feel.

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00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,360
It's almost like, you know, it
just makes you normal.

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00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,680
Like it makes you feel like I'm
no, I'm no longer, you know

227
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,120
what?
I left a lot of the chronic pain

228
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,840
groups and stuff like that
because you know, it, I used to

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00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,160
be that, you know, just, it's a
lot of negativity.

230
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,040
There's a lot of depression.
And you know when you offer

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00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,080
help, hey, why don't you try the
kratom?

232
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,160
Well, it's not FDA approved or
it's always an excuse.

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Push back.
There's always push back.

234
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,440
Yeah, it's like, oh, well, my,
you know, my son's cousins,

235
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,920
brothers, cats, dog, you know,
had a bad experience or.

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00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,960
And it's like, if you're really,
truly serious about changing

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00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,280
your life, you're willing to
give it a try.

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00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,840
And I mean, if you look into it,
there's all these people that

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00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,400
are saying the same thing as we
do.

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00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,440
But yeah, I just, I left a lot
of that because it's just what

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00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,920
am I trying to say here?
I don't to find myself by my, my

242
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,760
disability anymore.
Like there's a lot of stuff I'll

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00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,960
never do and that's cool.
That's fine with me.

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00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,160
I've I've learned to live with
it.

245
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,680
But you know, just not being
miserable and in chronic pain

246
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,160
every single day is like, you
know, 100 LB weight lifted off

247
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,640
my shoulders for the last 5 1/2
years.

248
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,080
And so to me that's just
awesome.

249
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,120
It actually takes the pain away
instead of just making you OK to

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00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,560
live with it, I guess, compared
to narcotics.

251
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:44,120
So yeah, I don't know.
It's hard to explain.

252
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,440
It's hard to explain, but yeah,
it just makes you feel normal

253
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,480
and like you're a person that
doesn't have that many problems

254
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,320
again.
Yeah, absolutely.

255
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,960
Well, I'm so glad it's helped
you and I'm so glad that we've

256
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,760
met through our community.
And I want to know a little more

257
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,840
about how has it, how has kratom
like just impacted your

258
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,000
day-to-day life just from
consuming this plant?

259
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,720
Oh, day-to-day life, I mean,
aside from back when I was

260
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,000
drinking every day, I mean I
would be in the bed a lot.

261
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,280
I couldn't go to my kids field
trips.

262
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,000
I was pill counting all the time
to make sure I had enough

263
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,960
medicine.
If I had to go try and do

264
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,560
something like that to do it,
holidays would come around and I

265
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,960
would have to make sure that I
was going to have medicine.

266
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,040
If not, then I would try and
find somebody I could buy it

267
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,000
from.
And if that fell through, well,

268
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,320
you know, I was probably going
to be tipsy and hungover the

269
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,480
entire holiday season.
So I don't, I mean, yes, I still

270
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,280
get tired and I still have to
take breaks and I still have to

271
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,360
sit down and lay around
sometimes.

272
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,520
But you know what?
I use that time to learn more

273
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,360
about things, you know, because
it's constantly things changing

274
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,320
on the science and everything
and advocate.

275
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But I'm not miserable.
I'm not just laying down

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00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,120
complaining all the time.
I can go to the grocery store if

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00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,200
I want to.
I mean, that was not a thing

278
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,120
that I did.
My husband did all of that.

279
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,200
I can get up and just do stuff.
I can do the laundry every day.

280
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,400
I don't have to like hoard it
away for two days and then

281
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,120
complain for the entire day that
I I don't have to put things

282
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,840
off.
Like I'm not constantly waiting

283
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,280
to live, I guess is how I look
at it.

284
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,760
Because before crying, I was
constantly waiting for my

285
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,240
refill, waiting for the doctors.
Is it counting days, counting

286
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,520
pills?
It's just, it's freedom.

287
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,960
I can just be normal.
You know, a lot of things people

288
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,640
take for granted.
And when you live with a chronic

289
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,320
condition, it's not normal.
And, you know, I used to get so

290
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,320
mad just looking at people's
Facebook posts or they're out

291
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,040
having fun going grocery
shopping and field trips.

292
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,120
And I used to just be so mad.
And like, I hate those people,

293
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,040
you know, just saying negativity
all the time.

294
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,120
But yeah, I mean, it's just
giving me functionality,

295
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,160
functionality to pretty well not
do whatever I want to do, but a

296
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,520
lot of things that I want to do.
Yeah.

297
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,840
How's your family feel about it?
I mean, I know you've been in

298
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,080
this for five years now, but did
they notice like a huge

299
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,440
difference when you start?
Oh yeah, yeah.

300
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,600
My family has always been really
supported by me.

301
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,400
Thankfully he put up with me
while I was trying to get so

302
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,240
much, but he immediately saw a
change.

303
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,240
I'm not, well, quite frankly,
being a bitch all the time,

304
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,000
being a constant bitch and a
pain in the butt.

305
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,520
I'm able to help out more.
Like I don't have to constantly,

306
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,920
hey, can you do this?
Can you go to the grocery store?

307
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,920
Can you do this?
And I think it's really, really

308
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,960
important to have people around
you that are supportive.

309
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,440
I know that there's a lot of
people that feel like they can't

310
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,200
open up to their spouses or
their loved ones, but my entire

311
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,440
family has seen just such a
major impact that it's made on

312
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,960
my life.
I couldn't imagine someone that

313
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,680
cares, truly cares about you
being angry about that.

314
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,840
I really couldn't unless they're
just miserable themselves.

315
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,560
I mean, I don't know.
But yeah, I mean, my family is

316
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,280
very supportive.
My husband's, he's always

317
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,800
excited.
He's very excited.

318
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,080
I'm part of the great home gals
and he's proud of me.

319
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,040
So it's a good feeling.
It's a good feeling when the

320
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,400
people around you also notice
that change and they're

321
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,840
supportive of you.
It's nice having that support

322
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,480
for sure, but there are plenty
of people that don't get the

323
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,400
support with their family and
friends.

324
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,040
There's been plenty of people
that have told me like, you

325
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,280
know, they don't tell anybody.
They don't feel comfortable

326
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,880
talking about it with others
around them, or they have family

327
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,800
members that just don't get it
and they think you're just

328
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,360
trading in one thing for
another.

329
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,240
What would you say to someone
who doesn't get the support from

330
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,680
their family?
I mean, you know, I think it's

331
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,160
silly to hide it.
And I mean, if it's to the point

332
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,400
where it's, you know, affecting
like your marriage or, you know,

333
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,960
I'm not going to sit there and
be like, if it were me, I would

334
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,400
go get a new husband.
No, no kids.

335
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,040
I mean, you know, educate.
I mean, you know, get the

336
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,440
resources, educate, stick to
your guns.

337
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,119
You know, say, look at me.
Look at what I'm doing.

338
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,200
Look at how much I've changed.
Do you really, I mean, you know,

339
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,000
if you sit down and ask somebody
that that truly cares about you,

340
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,000
do you want me to suffer every
day or do you want me to live

341
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,319
life and be happy?
I mean, it's kind of a telling

342
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,640
moment what they would say to
that and how they feel about

343
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,079
everything.
But I mean, the best thing to do

344
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,440
is just educate as much as you
can.

345
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,520
And I know that there are a lot
of people.

346
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,920
There are a couple people in my
family, especially the older

347
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,080
ones, and they're just kind of
dead set in their ways.

348
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,080
And I know that if they would
have saw a news story like the

349
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,840
stuff that's out there or if
they would have read a headline

350
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:50,920
or Cindy Lou Who's mom at church
told her about this horrible

351
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,360
experience, I could definitely
see them having a bad, bad view

352
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,600
on it.
My mom actually know this was

353
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,440
quite a while after I had
started consuming kratom, but a

354
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,920
lady at church told her that her
daughter had tried kratom once

355
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,040
and ended up in a middle of a
field naked at like 3:00 AM and

356
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,200
didn't know how she got there.
And I'm like, Mama, that was not

357
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,120
kratom.
That would not be kratom.

358
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,280
Kratom doesn't do that.
That is not kratom behavior and

359
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,120
so I don't know.
The best thing I can say is just

360
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,600
actions do speak louder than
words.

361
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,600
I mean, if you're living life
and you're doing well in life,

362
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,680
then who's to say that's a bad
thing?

363
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,200
Yeah, exactly.
But I think it's important to

364
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,680
educate your family members or
friends or people that are

365
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,440
buying into all the negativity
that they hear about.

366
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,720
I mean, yeah, when people Google
kratom, there's so much

367
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,160
misinformation, disinformation
as well, and propaganda.

368
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,680
And it's a real shame that
people believe everything they

369
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,880
read.
And, you know, I think you're

370
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,880
better off listening to people
with their first hand

371
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,880
experience.
Listen to a variety of people

372
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,680
with first hand experience to
get, you know, a better

373
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,080
perspective.
I always tell people to share

374
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,080
the website kratomanswers.org
because that has like some of

375
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,360
the best factual science backed
information about kratom.

376
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,960
I think that's a great starting
point for anyone that wants to

377
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,560
send family members, loved ones,
even their doctor too.

378
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,720
I always share that link with
anybody in the medical

379
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,960
profession that I meet with when
I mentioned kratom and almost

380
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,240
all of them and pretty much all
of them never heard of it.

381
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,960
I'll tell them go to
kratomanswers.org because we

382
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,800
know that's better than them
just Googling it.

383
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,400
It is, it is.
And hey, Kratom stories podcast,

384
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,480
there you go.
I mean, there's, you know,

385
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,600
dozens and dozens of stories
about, I mean, there is a lot of

386
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,360
people that believe whatever
they read and it's sad that

387
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,720
it's, you know, it's even public
officials that.

388
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,480
They Google it and yeah, and
they're getting so much

389
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,480
misinformation or, you know,
they look at the FDA site and

390
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:01,480
FDA has such misleading
information and they refuse to,

391
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,800
you know, share more accurate
science backed information.

392
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,240
And to me, it's just so crazy
that they've done a single dose

393
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,640
study.
I know I talk about this all the

394
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,720
time, but it just boggles my
mind that you've got a

395
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,320
government agency that has.
Bad mouths.

396
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,240
Kratom wants to get it banned,
yet they've done a single dose

397
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,840
study in like over a year ago
that shows that kratom is not

398
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,800
harmful, that is well tolerated
in all doses.

399
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,720
Yet they won't publish it.
They haven't released that

400
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,160
information.
I mean things will change when

401
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,240
that gets officially published
and they put on their site

402
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,000
because it totally contradicts
everything they put on their

403
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,880
site about kratom.
And it would be nice to have

404
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,280
that resource.
My thing is to, you know,

405
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,840
people, goodness gracious, how
many times has the FDA said

406
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,160
stuff that was not true though?
I mean, it's seriously like

407
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,080
there's a lot of the everyday
you see recalls and stuff from

408
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,520
the FDA.
They've went back on many

409
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,520
medications and say there's a
ingredient, cold medicine,

410
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,280
that's been in cold medicine for
as long as I can remember.

411
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,520
And now they're saying it just
doesn't do anything.

412
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,080
So they're trying to take it off
the show like.

413
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,440
Approve it to begin with.
Exactly.

414
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,920
Well, plus when we come to learn
that Purdue the makes of makers

415
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,360
of Oxycontin and I don't want
bad mouth Oxycontin because I

416
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:18,920
was one of the meds that helped
me tremendously when I was in

417
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,000
pain management.
It was one of the very few that

418
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,920
helped me.
But to find out that they bought

419
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,800
off somebody at the FDA to
approve the medication and

420
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,400
faster track it and, you know,
turn the cheek on, like, you

421
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,080
know, yes, this is addicting,
but let's not share that

422
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,000
information.
It's sad to find out like, you

423
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,840
know, how much the American
public is duped.

424
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,960
And not that we're trying to be
all conspiracy theorists here,

425
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,320
but it's just sad that we grew
up trusting our doctors.

426
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,040
We grew up trusting the
government.

427
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,360
And you can definitely see how
older generations are more

428
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,400
inclined to believe all that
stuff because that's how they

429
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,520
came up.
My parents were the type, if it

430
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,480
was in the newspaper or on the
news, then it was the truth,

431
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,600
right?
But that's all they knew.

432
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,680
And that's how the generations
before them were.

433
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,240
But now in this, in this digital
age that we've we've been in for

434
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,680
quite a while, so much of truth
gets uncovered.

435
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,760
And it's like, wow, there's a
lot of bad things that go on.

436
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,480
There is, and I mean, again, not
conspiracy theorist type, but I

437
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,320
mean, when you really start
looking in, I mean, to just a

438
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,320
lot of things with the
government, I mean, it's sad and

439
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,440
it's a little scary.
You know, that you're taught to

440
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,760
trust things like that the whole
time that you're growing up.

441
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,160
And I mean, we should be able to
trust our government somewhat,

442
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,320
but it's really hard to when
you've been, you know, so many

443
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,920
things are just not the way that
they're supposed to be.

444
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,640
But like I tell my kids all the
time, I don't care.

445
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,400
Somebody has doctor in front of
their name and they talk with

446
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,200
fool.
They know what they're talking

447
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,800
about and they think they sound
like an expert at something.

448
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,480
Always think for yourself.
Like always look into stuff for

449
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,080
yourself.
Don't just believe everything.

450
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,080
And heck, the media, I mean, get
out of here.

451
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,280
I mean, that's not trustworthy
either, you know?

452
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,800
Yeah.
I mean, the digital age I think

453
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,320
is I think there's a lot more
people that are starting to see

454
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,000
that.
You know, it's not what it's

455
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,800
what we've been told it is.
And again, not conspiracy

456
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,680
theorists, but you know, it's,
that's just the way it is, you

457
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,640
know?
Yeah, and once I became involved

458
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,720
in kratom advocacy with you,
Misty Brown, all the others in

459
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,240
our community, that was when I
first started seeing like, wow,

460
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,040
there's a lot of things that go
on in government.

461
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,160
Yeah.
That the public doesn't know

462
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,600
about because until, until I got
really involved in advocacy,

463
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,120
it's like like a great example
are when all of a sudden out of

464
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:45,640
the blue, some community in the
US all of a sudden wants to ban

465
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,040
kratom, right.
And how many of these council

466
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,280
meetings we've watched online,
because they're all live

467
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:57,600
streamed now, and how poorly
this whole process is done on

468
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,800
behalf of the people that live
in these communities.

469
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,120
We always come to find out that
there's rarely any notice that

470
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:08,440
there's going to be this public
session where people can come in

471
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,840
and say, hey, I'm a kratom
consumer.

472
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,440
Let me share my story of how
this has helped me before you

473
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,560
make a decision that affects my
entire life because I live in

474
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,240
supposed.
To be the way that the legal

475
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,480
system works, everybody has it's
supposed to be able to put

476
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,360
their.
There's rules, there's rules and

477
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:29,160
their rules are that, I mean, I,
I don't know all the specifics.

478
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,640
My understanding is as an
American in my community, if

479
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,760
they want to sit here and change
laws that affect the community,

480
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,360
they're supposed to be a public
notice.

481
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,320
They're supposed to be a public
session where you can come and

482
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,200
talk in person, where there's
this discussion, a public

483
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,320
discussion about it.
So on record, they know what

484
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,000
your stance is, and then they go
vote.

485
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,280
And we watch these online all
the time in all these various

486
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,280
communities, both at the state
level, the local level.

487
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,000
And we see how ignorant so many
of these legislators are.

488
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,560
We're like, they'll be Googling
the word kratom while they're in

489
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,040
session about to make a decision
that affects all the people in

490
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,880
their community.
It's like they don't even know

491
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,280
what it is.
It's scary.

492
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,040
I mean, it really is scary.
I mean, when you think about it,

493
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,520
people are just making, you
know, the people I know, they're

494
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,000
not all voted into office, but
you know, those are the people

495
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,840
you're supposed to trust to make
the right decisions for you.

496
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,960
And instead of having an open
mind, researching, learning,

497
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,200
they're just making laws based
on their opinion.

498
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,040
And that's, you know, that's not
right.

499
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,920
And not everybody, I don't agree
with everybody in the world, you

500
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,440
know, we all have different
opinions.

501
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,720
To make laws based on that is
ridiculous.

502
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,000
But yeah, I mean, we've even had
people call it, oh, I looked it

503
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,880
up on the Google machine.
Who says?

504
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,520
That, yeah, we've seen say that
in a live session.

505
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,040
They don't even know how to
pronounce it.

506
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,520
They don't know.
I mean, it's the things that

507
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,720
we've seen have opened up my
eyes a lot to how things work in

508
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,840
the government.
And I'm telling you, anybody

509
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,240
listen right now, you need to at
least get involved in what your

510
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,000
local government's doing, at
least know what they're doing.

511
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,080
Maybe go they've got a lot of
City Council meetings online.

512
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,760
Just be a part of that.
It could be anything affecting

513
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,840
you.
There's no public notice say

514
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,920
that you know, they, I don't
know outlaw dogs and you got a

515
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,000
whole hot dogs like you want to
know, you know, and you have the

516
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,960
right to know.
It is.

517
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,160
It's scary.
It's scary what we've seen.

518
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,400
It really is.
And with some of these kratom

519
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,760
bands, they come out of nowhere.
They almost always claim is for

520
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,280
the children.
We know that children, children

521
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,600
do not consume kratom.
And it's like we come to find

522
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,760
that most of the time there
wasn't even a problem in that

523
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,200
community to begin with.
But you get somebody that brings

524
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,240
it to the attention of the local
government is like, we got to

525
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,920
ban this.
This stuff is bad and they

526
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,400
demonize it, making it out to be
something it's not.

527
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,960
Like it's just the next huge
destroyer of worlds.

528
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,520
Like if they don't hurry up and
ban it now, all the kids are

529
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,840
going to be addicted to it.
You know, everybody's going to

530
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,120
be strung out all over the
streets.

531
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:09,080
And it's like, but you didn't
even know what it was until

532
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,200
today and you still don't even
know how to say it, you know.

533
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,720
I mean, if it was such a
problem, you know, you would see

534
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,760
people all over having issues
with it, you know, I mean, and

535
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,160
as far as kids get out of here,
none of my kids want to take

536
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,960
that ass on 12 year old.
Like, would you want to take

537
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,320
this?
Would you want to drink this

538
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,280
swamp water?
Of course not.

539
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,480
And this kids weird.
He goes outside and he's like a

540
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,800
leaves and stuff, you know, I
mean, he's weird and he wouldn't

541
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,000
even want.
I mean, come on, you know, at

542
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320
some point we have to just wake
up.

543
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,200
I mean, I want to protect my
kids as much as I can, but I'm

544
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,200
not protecting them from kratom
because there's no reason to

545
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,160
have to do that.
And that's silly.

546
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,560
It's silly.
Yeah, it really is pleasant.

547
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,880
You know, with kratom these
days, people seem to think

548
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,840
kratom is kratom is kratom, and
it's not.

549
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,040
And I feel like as advocates, we
spend so much time trying to

550
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,680
educate people on the fact that
there's different types of

551
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,120
kratom and they're all
completely different.

552
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,480
You know, you and I consume
kratom powder.

553
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,200
It's just the raw leaf powder,
the whole leaf.

554
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,680
It is nature you know is not
leaves.

555
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,160
The tree and then.
That's all it is.

556
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,600
That's all it is.
You know, when people demonize

557
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,160
kratom, it's like really?
I'm consuming a leaf that came

558
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,640
off of a tree like it's a ground
up.

559
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,760
I drink it like a tea.
It gives me better pain relief

560
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,640
than heavy narcotics that are
addicting.

561
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,400
And so we don't really hear too
many issues with people that

562
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,040
consume the whole leaf powder
like we do.

563
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,640
Every once in a while we hear
stories of somebody who consumed

564
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,640
an outrageous amount, 50 grams,
100 grams a day.

565
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,480
I consume a total, I do 5 grams
every six hours, so the course

566
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,280
of a day, about 20 grams ish.
And that's kind of a moderate.

567
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,840
That's kind of probably actually
a little high.

568
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,600
But everybody's affected
differently.

569
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,080
I know people who take such a
small amount, right?

570
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,480
Some people do take more than I
do for their pain or whatever

571
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,280
their issue is.
But when you hear these stories

572
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,080
of somebody taking 50-60,
eighty, 100 milligrams, they

573
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,880
have a problem.
And they're looking for

574
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,240
something that they're not going
to.

575
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,800
They're chasing the dragon.
They are not going to find with

576
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,880
kratom.
A lot of those are addicts that

577
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,520
you know, you're talking about
eating a hundred 100 grams or

578
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,920
more.
I've seen people say of kratom

579
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,560
in a day like you know, that's.
You'd probably throw up first.

580
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,560
I mean, I can't even, you know,
the thing about kratom, one of

581
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,680
the great benefits with kratom
that I love is that there's a

582
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,920
ceiling effect, right?
You know, with narcotics, you

583
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,920
take too much, you stop
breathing because it will

584
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,560
suppress your your breathing and
you'll die.

585
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,320
But Kratom doesn't do that
before it gets to anything close

586
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,320
to that.
Oh, it doesn't even do that at

587
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,880
all.
But you take too much of it, you

588
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,120
will throw up.
Yep.

589
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,120
Your body's saying no and you
will not.

590
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,680
Want to do that again because
it's very miserable.

591
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,800
I don't see how anybody could
consume such a large quantum.

592
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,560
Yeah.
I mean, you would have to train

593
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,680
like you would have to train
your body every day for a long

594
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,480
time to be able to even make it
up to 100 grand.

595
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,440
And if you're doing that, then
you have a lot going on.

596
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,960
And it's not the plant's fault.
It's a thing, not a kratom

597
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,880
thing.
Look at yourself at that point.

598
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080
Yeah, I mean, you have to take
personal accountability, you

599
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,640
know, instead of going around
preaching about how bad kratom

600
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,280
is.
Yeah, coming after us,

601
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,720
responsible kratom consumers,
they come after us because they

602
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,080
abuse this plant.
But then there's also extracts,

603
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,200
and we hear a lot about
extracts, which is, you know,

604
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,240
taking not the whole leaf, but
taking a few of the alkaloids

605
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,680
and synthesizing it a bit to
make it a bit stronger.

606
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,600
And for some people, it works
really well for their pain,

607
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,960
their depression, whatever
reason they're taking or, you

608
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,960
know, to get off of opioids,
which is great if it helps.

609
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,840
But what we see as advocates,
and we're just so entrenched in

610
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,520
this community, we see so much.
We hear so much that people

611
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,800
aren't educating themselves.
And people with addict behavior

612
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,640
find these shots of extracts and
typically 1 bottle almost always

613
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,880
is multiple servings, usually 3
servings, 5 servings or more in

614
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,480
a little bitty bottle that looks
like a little shot bottle of

615
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,400
like those energy drinks.
And they start abusing it

616
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,560
because they don't know, they're
not educated on it.

617
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,360
And then that becomes a problem
for some people.

618
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,680
But they again, kratom is kratom
is kratom.

619
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,800
It's like, no, it's not because
you don't get that with what we

620
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,520
get with the powder.
I hate the shots like I just I

621
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,480
hate them.
I do believe that there is a

622
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,280
place for, you know, extracts
MIT extracts.

623
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,760
I just you know, I know that
there is a you know, but you

624
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,360
need to be a kratom consumer for
a long time.

625
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,480
You need to know what you're
doing.

626
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,600
You need to know how to dose and
you need to know the reason.

627
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,960
You know, you need to know, you
know, you don't want to just be

628
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,440
all Willy nilly go on the gas
station and down in these five

629
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,920
hour energy shots.
I like, I really, I just hate

630
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,200
those shots.
Like it's just, yeah, I mean,

631
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,960
you hear about so many people
going and buying cases of them

632
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,400
every day.
And I mean, again, though,

633
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,000
again, a lot of those people are
looking for whatever they're

634
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,960
trying to get, you know, by down
in those shots every day.

635
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,800
And again, you know, it's not
really the shots fault, it's the

636
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,240
people going to buy it.
And they also should take

637
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,640
personal account.
But I mean, yeah, I do think the

638
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,680
shots give a lot of God, just
Abby.

639
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,040
On the advocating side, it is
tough because it's almost always

640
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,200
the horror stories with the
extracts because they found them

641
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,360
in a in a gas station and just
went crazy with it.

642
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,520
Yeah, almost always.
Do you think that they should

643
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,560
stop selling those?
Like do you think a solution

644
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,760
would be that they just aren't
available in gas stations

645
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,240
anymore?
Honestly, yeah.

646
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,320
I mean, I'm not for banning
anything per SE, but yeah, I

647
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,480
would like to see them out of
gas stations, maybe at a health

648
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,640
food store and online or, you
know, just somewhere where, you

649
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,480
know, you have somebody that's
knowledgeable about.

650
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,680
And again, you know, the only
time I know Misty will say this

651
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,360
too, there is a time and a place
when you're first starting out

652
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,440
for extracts, labor, coming off
something really hard or, you

653
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,960
know, say you had surgery and
your stomach at.

654
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,120
But, I mean, there is a time and
a place for it when you're first

655
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:20,640
beginning.
But, you know, don't just go to

656
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,080
the gas station and buy these
things.

657
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,360
It's hard to find education
about it.

658
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,520
You know, it would be nice to
have it at a health food store

659
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,240
or someplace like that where you
actually have somebody that

660
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,520
knows what they're talking about
and can kind of walk you through

661
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,680
on how not to end up buying
cases of that crap every day.

662
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,320
Yeah.
I would like to see it out of

663
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:40,440
gas stations.
I would.

664
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,320
Yeah, I'm with you.
Like I'm not for prohibition at

665
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,440
all.
I, you know, if I think there's

666
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,680
a place for these, but they
shouldn't be so easy to access

667
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,040
like that on a shelf at a, at a
convenience store or gas

668
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,840
station.
I think it should be like how

669
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,680
you have cigarettes behind the
counter at a convenience store,

670
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,600
have it behind the counter.
So that number one, you're

671
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,000
ensuring the person is carded to
make sure they're, you know, 18

672
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,840
and up or 21 and up depending on
what state they're in and making

673
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,040
sure there's information.
But I think they shouldn't be in

674
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,679
gas stations at all.
I think a smoke shop behind the

675
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,440
counter where they get accurate
information from the people that

676
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,000
work there, I think is
important.

677
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:23,120
I always tell people online
vendors are the best because you

678
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,000
know you're getting lab tested
good.

679
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,520
You want to get by good lab
tested quality products.

680
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,320
And, and if it's a great vendor,
you can connect with them online

681
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,800
and talk to them and they'll
help you and.

682
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,239
They might even have, you know,
things on their website they can

683
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,800
point you to so you can look it
up at your convenience.

684
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,320
You know, you may not.
But yeah, I think a lot of the

685
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,120
online vendor, the vendors that
are in it for the right reasons,

686
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,840
Yeah.
I mean, the reason why they're

687
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,400
in the business is to help
people, you know, And so a lot

688
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,239
of times, yeah, the gas station
is just like you got Billy Bob

689
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,920
working at the cash register.
He does not care.

690
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,880
You know, he thinks it's
hilarious people are coming to

691
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,640
buy cases of it.
You know, it's like, I don't

692
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,040
know, but yeah, I think that,
you know, if there just needs to

693
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,760
be a lot more education around
the extracts and you're not

694
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,240
going to get that at 7:11.
Exactly and then there's a 7 O,

695
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,600
you know, we have to talk about
that because that pops up in our

696
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,760
conversations all the time now.
So for our listeners, if you're

697
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,680
not familiar, so not only these
are kratom powder and kratom

698
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,200
extracts, but now we're hearing
a lot about these seven OH

699
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,440
products.
They're usually tablets, but

700
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,280
we're also seeing them made into
other products.

701
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,000
And what a mess that's becoming
for us kratom advocates and

702
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,480
consumers because that's now
taking the seven

703
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,560
hydroxymetragynin, which is 1
extract in the plant and

704
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,840
synthesizing it to the point
that it's basically an opioid.

705
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,120
And to have the top kratom
researchers in the country

706
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,960
sounding the alarm, you know, a
great article came out yesterday

707
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,000
from researchers and they're
very concerned about this.

708
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,880
And they talk about it all the
time publicly about, you know,

709
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,240
this is becoming a problem.
What are your thoughts?

710
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:07,520
Because you know, you, me and
Misty Brown and and Venus with

711
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,800
the kratom gals were always
talking about saying no to seven

712
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,480
O because we want people to be
educated and understand what

713
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,080
this is.
And this is really becoming a

714
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,280
problem.
So what's your thoughts on the

715
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,200
seven O?
You know, it's scary going back

716
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,160
to like the whole gas station
thing.

717
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,680
You know, you got these at smoke
shops and gas stations and

718
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,760
they're being marketed as kratom
products.

719
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,800
You know, it even says it on the
packaging.

720
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,080
That is a huge concern.
This is not cradle.

721
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,560
You can call it, I was calling
it synthetic because it's made

722
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,400
in a laboratory.
But let's say it's semi

723
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,240
synthetic.
The point is it's made with

724
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:43,800
chemicals.
It is not.

725
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,200
It is a very highly concentrated
alkaloid that you're consuming.

726
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,600
It's not cradle, but another big
concern is just, you know,

727
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,480
hearing Doctor McCurdy and and
Doctor Smith and, you know,

728
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,480
Doctor McCurdy said that every
time this is getting made,

729
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,520
there's components in there that
are, we don't even know there's

730
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,720
trace chemicals in there that we
have no idea what they are.

731
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,120
That's concerning.
It's concerning that there is no

732
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:18,360
way to test for only the seven
hydroxy when someone passes like

733
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,280
everything is just rolled as a
kratom death if they have any of

734
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,400
that in their system.
And so that's a huge thing

735
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,560
because we already as advocates
here so many times and so many

736
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,840
people claim that it's, you
know, kratom only death.

737
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:34,880
And I feel bad for all those
families.

738
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,080
But when the coroners aren't
even testing for anything else

739
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,040
and they're just testing for
that one thing, of course, it's

740
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,080
that's just a huge concern.
So it's already hard enough to

741
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,400
not Get the facts on that.
Those poor family members have

742
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,840
to pretty much never know the
truth because that's there's no

743
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,720
testing.
But it's just it's concerning to

744
00:37:55,720 --> 00:38:00,040
just to read all the stories
about what it's doing to people,

745
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,240
Like it's turning people into,
you know, addicts, you know, a

746
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,480
lot of these people that were
heroin addicts or whatever,

747
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,800
fentanyl, whatever, they're just
changing it to that.

748
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,160
I mean, they're spending
hundreds and hundreds of dollars

749
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,760
a day on these pills.
Yeah.

750
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,520
And another thing is going to
look at the lab test.

751
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,640
You know, how many have we seen
that claims it has seven oh H in

752
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,560
it and it has nothing NO7OH at
all.

753
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,720
And it's got methane hexane.
It's got all kinds of stuff in

754
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,560
it, but it sure don't have no 7H
in it.

755
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,360
So you're just, I mean, you're
just somebody's Guinea pig, as

756
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,400
Missy always says, that's what
it is.

757
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,200
And it's, and that's concerning
because who knows?

758
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,520
I mean, these people, there's no
regulation on it.

759
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,840
So these people are coming in
just to make money.

760
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,640
They can throw whatever they
want to in it and people are

761
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,440
just buying it up.
And that's scary.

762
00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:00,640
Yeah.
And when we say say no to 7

763
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,240
seven O, I'm not saying, you
know, let's go and ban it.

764
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,160
And I'm saying let's educate
people.

765
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,480
If you're wanting to be a kratom
consumer, say no to seven O,

766
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,240
especially if you're just say no
to seven O.

767
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,960
And if you want to say yes to
seven O and you're educated on

768
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,640
what it is, bro, go for it.
I ain't telling you what to put

769
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,480
in your body.
I will never do that.

770
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,160
But marketing at as kratom is
just it's ridiculous and it's

771
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,880
it's irresponsible, it's
reckless and it's concerning.

772
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,800
And I could go on and talk about
the solid oh.

773
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,200
You're fired up.
I I knew you could.

774
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,640
It is very concerning and we've
talked about it so much on the

775
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,720
kratom gals, because when we
watch videos, we come across a

776
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,960
variety of them where people are
talking about 7 O and they'll

777
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,560
show the packaging of these
products and you can see they're

778
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,600
trying to market this like a
drug.

779
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,800
They try to like come up with
names.

780
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,400
So it sounds like you know
Percocets perks and other you

781
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,680
know, very drug sounding names
Roxies and you'll know anybody

782
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,400
that's not that doesn't know
much about this.

783
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,600
You'll know when you see the
packaging will always have 70 H

784
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,640
really highlighted and it will
almost always have the word

785
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,920
kratom somewhere on the
packaging and.

786
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,120
Strongest kratom alkaloid?
Yeah, you know.

787
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,160
If they're crazy strong with the
shots, with the extracts, the

788
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,320
most of the seven
hydroxymetergainine they can

789
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,200
have is 2%.
But with these, they're a crazy

790
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:28,880
high percent.
And when you have Doctor

791
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,920
McCurdy, one of the leading
kratom researchers, saying we

792
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,920
don't know what's in this, they
can't identify it.

793
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,480
So like you're putting chemicals
in your body that researchers

794
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,000
can't even identify, right?
And you're OK.

795
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,320
It's like.
You're telling me that that

796
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,480
you're OK with people just
starting out and, you know, and

797
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,160
I know a lot of people.
Oh, well, you know, it's the

798
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,040
only thing that work for some
people's pain.

799
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:54,680
Is it though, is it really like
have they tried anything else?

800
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,120
That's my big thing because I
know a lot of we've heard

801
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,560
stories of people going into
smoke shops and these smoke shop

802
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,800
owners are hey, take this, take
these 70 H bro, like that's not

803
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,240
cool, you know?
So how in the world do we know

804
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,760
that's the only thing that works
for those specific people's

805
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,160
pain?
I'm just saying, like I, I just,

806
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,320
and again, I'm not talking for a
band, but there needs to be a

807
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:23,840
whole lot more education and
more just so much of the pushing

808
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,600
to make this money from these
people, from the vendors.

809
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,160
I mean, I can't even count how
many 7 OH, vendors are out there

810
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,000
now.
You know, who knows how they're

811
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,520
even making it, you know, or
they make it in their bathtub or

812
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,720
do they have a, you know, a
decent place to make it?

813
00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:42,200
Who knows?
It's just, it's scary.

814
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,280
It's scary.
And so it's, I don't know, I

815
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,280
just get, I get tired of seeing
all the hate that we get about

816
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,560
it just because we're trying to
advocate and educate.

817
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:52,960
And educate, Yeah, we're just
trying to.

818
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,560
Educate.
Know the difference?

819
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,400
Yeah.
And the way I kind of equate it,

820
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,400
when you have the powder that we
consume versus extracts versus

821
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,840
the seven, oh, I say that's
comparing light beer to vodka to

822
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,920
Everclear.
That'd be like the easiest way

823
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,440
to understand the.
Different moonshine there.

824
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,240
You go.
That's probably a better.

825
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:13,720
They're making it in the bath or
they're making it, you know,

826
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,560
it's man made.
We don't know how exactly

827
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,840
they're doing it, and the FDA is
doing nothing about it.

828
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,080
No, no.
And I mean.

829
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,640
They don't care.
And people, you can't argue with

830
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,520
the scientists that happens.
Like Doctor Mccurry's been doing

831
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,360
this for a couple decades.
You know what I mean, Doctor

832
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,280
Smith?
It's like these are people that

833
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,280
all they do is work with Cradle
and they are concerned.

834
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,760
So, you know, just because you
might read an article that, you

835
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,960
know, somebody or a post
somebody wrote on Reddit or

836
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,520
whatever, that does not make
them an expert.

837
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,840
I don't care if they're taking
200 milligrams of seven OHA day,

838
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,520
that also certainly doesn't make
them an expert.

839
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,400
You know, So I could go on and
on about the seven, OH, every

840
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,240
all day.
But yeah, it's very concerning.

841
00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,920
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad that the

842
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,360
researchers are sounding the
alarm and trying to make sure

843
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,800
the public understands that this
is something that should not be

844
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,320
marketed.
It's out there.

845
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,920
You know, I don't think there's
a whole lot that can be done

846
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,960
about that.
But they're saying this is not

847
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,560
kratom, period.
This is not kratom, and they're

848
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,440
marketing it as kratom.
Yeah.

849
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,200
And I think there's just a lot
of people that are, yeah, a lot

850
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,640
of people selling it right now.
They're trying to get as much

851
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:25,800
money as they can.
It's.

852
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,640
The money grab, money grab while
they get it, because at some

853
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,000
point something's going to
happen.

854
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,560
Yeah, and I know I've also heard
on my own e-mail, you're just,

855
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,760
you know, all these people
saying it's going to get kratom

856
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,680
band.
It's like, dude, I'm not even

857
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,120
saying that.
Like I'm not even saying that.

858
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,880
I'm just, I don't know if I've
ever said that.

859
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,760
I mean, I think it's going to
give kratom a a worse name that

860
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,520
it already has.
I think there's going to be a

861
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,680
lot of bad things that happened.
But I'm just saying like, that's

862
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,760
not the reason why we say say no
to 70.

863
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,200
That's not why we're against it.
That we have very good reason.

864
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,840
Yeah.
And when you really dig into

865
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,160
these deaths you hear about
related to kratom, like 90% of

866
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,080
the time is polydrug use.
So it is not the kratom that

867
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,080
killed them.
They had kratom and fentanyl and

868
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,000
heroin and this and that and
all.

869
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,160
These things, all these things
in their.

870
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,680
System is not.
It is so rare, super rare for it

871
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,960
to be kratom only.
But even those supposed kratom

872
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,920
only have been questionable.
Like the one where the guy had a

873
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,600
gunshot wound to the chest.
Like a shotgun wound to the

874
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,920
chest.
But they called.

875
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,440
It a positive for kratom though,
so it's automatically a kratom.

876
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,560
Or there was kratom in his
apartment and he's dead so it

877
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,360
had to have been the kratom that
killed him.

878
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,040
Or the family member says, oh,
he's been using kratom for a

879
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,080
couple of weeks.
You know, that's it as far as

880
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,320
they go with any investigation,
which is crazy.

881
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,200
Like if it were my kid and
again, like I do have a place

882
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,600
for these grieving families,
like I understand, but if it

883
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,040
were my kid, I would be fighting
like hell for the truth.

884
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,600
I would want to know.
I want them to do everything in

885
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,240
their power like that.
Mom and I Ohio you know she

886
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:20,400
knows kratom didn't kill her
son, but because they found it

887
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,840
on scene they call her the next
day.

888
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,560
No test run and oh it's a kratom
death if.

889
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,560
She if she had to take what the
coroner to court over there

890
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,840
because she knew the truth, but
they just want to like wipe

891
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,640
their hands of it.
We're going to do as little as

892
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,080
possible.
So let's just call it a kratom

893
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,120
death because we saw kratom like
you said, on scene.

894
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,640
Ridiculous.
It really is.

895
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:49,000
And you don't know about these
things until you start diving in

896
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:54,520
and, and hearing like, wow, this
stuff goes on all the time and

897
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,600
is suppressed and nobody knows
about it.

898
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,360
So that's why we're loud, proud
advocates.

899
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,920
We want the truth out there.
We want people to know that

900
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,200
these things happen.
If something happens to me, it

901
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,240
will not be because of.
Kratom.

902
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,360
It will not be because of my
kratom consumption 100% period.

903
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,040
But you get somebody who just
wants to do this quickly and

904
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,480
they'll be like, well, I should
point, she has a lot of kratom

905
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,200
in her cupboard.
It was the kratom.

906
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,920
Well, and you know, a lot of
times, I mean, there's so many

907
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,520
factors that can go into this.
You know, I mean, a lot of these

908
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,960
people, I mean, hell, I'll be,
I'll tell you right now, I

909
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,120
haven't lived a, you know,
healthy lifestyle.

910
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,920
But is say you know, you've been
a heroin user for 10 years of

911
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,800
your life and you've drank
alcohol for 20 years and you're

912
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,440
just coming off of heavy opiates
or something and you pass away 3

913
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,120
weeks in your Kratom journey.
Like were you even healthy in

914
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,040
the 1st place?
You know, you probably had

915
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,360
issues in the 1st place.
You probably had issues before

916
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,080
kratom came into the picture.
And again, you know, I just wish

917
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,640
that there was more looking into
it.

918
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,800
I would, I would demand if I
could an autopsy.

919
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,760
And just to know, I mean, it
could even be if, if one of my

920
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,400
children, God forbid that
happened to, I would demand an

921
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,200
autopsy.
It could be some hereditary you

922
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,320
might save somebody else.
So, I mean, and that actually

923
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,440
happened with my uncle.
My uncle passed away just

924
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,800
suddenly.
He was 50 years old and my

925
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:26,920
grandmother had an autopsy and
he had a heart disease thing and

926
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,120
ended up, you know, saving my
dad and his other brother's life

927
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,800
because it's so if he wouldn't
have died, who knows what would

928
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,720
happen.
I mean, you know, there's just

929
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:38,120
so many things that people don't
take into consideration and, and

930
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,720
again, how many times during
COVID did we hear somebody died

931
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:45,360
of COVID and they had like a car
wreck or something, but they

932
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,320
tested positive for it's the
same thing.

933
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,240
Right.
They did call a lot of things

934
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,600
COVID deaths, but it was like
something else happened too.

935
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,240
It's like.
Oh, I had a heart attack.

936
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,640
But you were positive for COVID.
So it's like, you know, think

937
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,720
about that.
I mean, again, it all goes back

938
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:02,760
to even though we're supposed to
trust how things work in the

939
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,080
government, that's not always
the ideal way things should

940
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,040
work.
Yeah, I agree.

941
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,560
I'm loving this conversation.
This is so good.

942
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,200
I love that you're such a big
advocate like I am in the

943
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,640
community.
For those listening, I'm sure we

944
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,040
have listeners are like, you
know, I want to advocate more.

945
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,920
I'm a consumer.
This plant's amazing.

946
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,160
It's helping me.
What would you tell somebody?

947
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,240
Like how can they get started in
advocacy?

948
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,320
Well, you know, always, if
you're not already following the

949
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,400
American Krannom Association,
definitely sign up for their

950
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,400
newsletter.
They send out stuff.

951
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,360
Unfortunately, they don't have a
Facebook page anymore, but you

952
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,480
can find them on YouTube,
Twitter, Instagram.

953
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,600
I would also say follow the
Kratom gals because we do a lot

954
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,360
of every Saturday and we always
go over whatever is going on,

955
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,640
the news, whatever new science
is going on, you know, just stay

956
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,040
up to date.
If you want to do social media,

957
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,960
heck yeah, go ahead and start
making videos.

958
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,360
Hit us up, we'll help you out.
You know what I mean?

959
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,760
Just tell your story.
Your story means so much.

960
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,000
Like there is so much value in
someone's voice and then telling

961
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,520
their story because there's
somebody out there that needs to

962
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,560
hear your story because it's
somebody out there it's going to

963
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,840
be similar to and someone out
there you can help.

964
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,040
And you know, like me, I think
about how miserable I was six

965
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,960
years ago.
And there could be that person

966
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,840
out there just that miserable.
And just by telling your story,

967
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,600
you could change their life.
And I mean, how cool is that?

968
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,720
I mean, I know you've missed it,
you know, messages all the time

969
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:32,720
thinking you just for y'all
being on social media and that's

970
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:38,600
so just sharing truth and
getting into it.

971
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,160
Also, hey, hit up Madeline on
the Kratom stories podcast.

972
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,560
There you go and come tell your
story again.

973
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,080
That's a huge deal.
That's what I was going to say.

974
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,960
It's like, you know, I'm always
looking for stories to share.

975
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,360
So for any of our listeners, if
you're a kratom consumer,

976
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,200
whether you're brand new or
somebody that's been consuming

977
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,480
it like us for many, many years,
you know, we want to hear your

978
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:00,920
story.
And I mean, I there's some

979
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,720
people I've been helping that I
met through TikTok recently that

980
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,000
are brand new.
It's like, will you come on my

981
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,160
podcast?
Because there's somebody that

982
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:15,240
could hear somebody's brand new
journey into kratom just being

983
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,360
less than a weekend, and that
could impact somebody's life.

984
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,360
And it's amazing.
Like all of our stories are

985
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,640
important.
That's why I started the

986
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,600
podcast.
And yeah, so if anybody

987
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,000
listening you've been consuming
kratom, reach out to me because

988
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,840
I would love and tell everybody,
Jennifer, how easy I make this.

989
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,200
I know a lot of people get
nervous.

990
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,440
They've never done a podcast
before.

991
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,120
Tell them how easy this is.
Oh.

992
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,080
It's super easy.
I mean, it is super easy.

993
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,160
You know what?
Madeline's laid back.

994
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:42,960
It's like hanging out with a
friend.

995
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,200
You know you, you can even have
your camera turned off.

996
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,160
You can use a fake name so no
one else knows your you know who

997
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,200
it is.
If you're scared or embarrassed.

998
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,880
I mean, it's super easy.
And I promise you after you tell

999
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,760
your story, you just feel so
much better because you know

1000
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,360
it's out there and you know you
did something.

1001
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,760
You know you did something.
I just advocacy, you know, is,

1002
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,200
yeah, part of advocating is just
like you said, get your story

1003
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,120
out there.
And this is one of many ways to

1004
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,080
do it.
So I'm so glad you came back on

1005
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,600
to do this with me.
My last question for you is,

1006
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,800
knowing everything you know now
about kratom and you know so

1007
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,480
much, you've been at this a long
time, what advice would you give

1008
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,200
to someone to help them start in
their kratom journey?

1009
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,480
My advice would definitely be
don't give up.

1010
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,280
I mean, in the beginning a lot,
I've heard a lot of people say,

1011
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,280
well, you know, I tried kratom,
but it didn't work, you know,

1012
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,120
and a lot of times you have to
experiment.

1013
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,760
You have to make sure that
you're taking the right dose or

1014
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,680
you might need to take a
different strain.

1015
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,240
You might need to try a
different vendor.

1016
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,560
Keep a journal, write down what
is working and what's not

1017
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,320
working for you.
I mean, just I would say if

1018
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,920
you're one of those people that
are just starting out and you

1019
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,440
think it doesn't work, give it
three weeks and really put forth

1020
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,840
the effort because, boy, it
really does pay off.

1021
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:03,840
But yeah, just don't give up.
Don't give up and keep on going.

1022
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,880
Keep on trucking, you know,
because it's seriously this side

1023
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,560
of the wall is all a hell of a
lot better.

1024
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,640
It sure is great advice.
Thank you Jennifer so much for

1025
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,240
coming on and and chatting with
me.

1026
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,000
This is a great conversation.
Well, thank you for having me.

1027
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,560
Thank you for listening.
You can get more information at

1028
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,440
kratomstoriespodcast.com,
including show notes from this

1029
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:29,000
episode.