Ep 58: From Addiction to Healing: A Kratom Journey with Misty & Kassie - Part 1

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I want people to know that
kratom is an option.

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You know, it helped me.
And so when I started doing

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that, I got a lot of backlash
from the abstinence recovery

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community, from the Mac
community.

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And you know what?
I just, I didn't lay down and

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take it.
They just fueled my advocacy

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fire.
But I would also love to see

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plant based recovery centers.
Welcome to Kratom Stories, a

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weekly podcast where we share
stories of how this amazing

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plant has changed our lives.
I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.

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Each week I'll bring you a new
episode featuring interviews

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with experts, advocates, and
everyday people who've

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experienced the benefits of
kratom first hand.

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Join me as we dive deeper into
the world of this botanical

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wonder and discover the amazing
stories behind this incredible

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plant.
The Kratom Stories Podcast is

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presented solely for educational
purposes.

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Neither the podcast nor its host
promote or endorse the use of

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kratom, a substance not yet
regulated or approved by the

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FDA.
The views and opinions expressed

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by guests are theirs alone and
do not necessarily reflect those

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of the host or the podcast.
The content is not intended as a

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substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or

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treatment.
Always seek the advice of your

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physician or other qualified
healthcare provider with any

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questions regarding the use of
kratom.

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We got a special edition of the
Kratom Stories podcast today.

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I am doing something a little
different.

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I have Misty Brown and Cassie
here.

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These are two lovely ladies that
I've interviewed in the past

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talking about using kratom in
their recovery.

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Cassie was on recently episode
number 51, and Misty was episode

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number 2, and then she was back
for episode #48.

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So ladies, thank you for coming
back on, but doing it as a group

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so we can have an interesting
conversation today.

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You're very welcome.
Yeah, I think this will be a lot

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of fun, a little different than
what we usually do here.

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I just want to learn more about
both of you with kratom and

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recovery.
So why don't we start off 1st

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and we'll go with you, Misty 1st
and then Cassie, won't you share

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a little bit about your
background in your journey with

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addiction?
I started going to chronic pain

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management in 2006.
Right at that time was when I

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was having migraines and I
didn't get diagnosed with

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degenerative disc disease until
2008.

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Now, I was responsibly taking my
medications from 2006 to around

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2008.
That's when I slid into the

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addiction side.
I will always say that I

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survived the over prescribing
epidemic.

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I was being prescribed pain
pills left right.

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I could call my doctors in, they
would call the refills in over

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the phone.
I could go pick them up at 2:00

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in the morning, you know, So I
didn't slide into the addiction

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side until 2008.
And then from 2008 to 2019, it

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was month after month, doctor
after doctor, pharmacy after

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pharmacy.
You know, I was stuck in that

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addiction cycle that whole time.
Yes, I was depressed.

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Yes, I was dealing with PTSDI,
was dealing with anxiety, you

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know, all that stuff, on top of
dealing with chronic pain at the

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same time.
So I always say that the doctors

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were the ones that gave me the
keys to stay into my addiction

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cycle.
Now, people have commented to me

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before and say, well, why didn't
you ever tell your doctor you

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were addicted?
And I'd be like, why would I

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tell my drug dealer in a white
coat that I'm addicted?

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You know, I was secretly
addicted for those eleven years

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and I'd lived with that shame
and that guilt, but I just kept

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it, kept fueling, fueling my
addiction process as well.

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So chronic pain management
survivor here.

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Yeah, Cassie, what about you?
Why don't you tell us a little

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bit about your background and
your journey with addiction?

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All right, so I pretty much
spent about 15 years in an

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active addiction.
I yeah, I basically mine started

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with with pills.
The first ones was I can talk

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about those here, right?
Can I talk about or do you want

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me to just not say the name?
OK.

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So mine started with Klonopin
and Ultram and I was taking it

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responsibly.
Not for long though.

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And then I started just taking
more and more and you know,

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things got out of control.
Eventually I had gotten back on

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my ADHD medication which was
Adderall and that was the

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beginning of hell for me.
I was using them really bad and

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eventually it led to heroin and
then it led to cocaine and crack

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and pretty much after that
anything else I can get my hands

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on?
So it was a rough dark Rd. for a

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long time and thank God for
this.

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But eventually I just got tired
of it and I was like OK, I want

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my life back.
And I had got in touch with a

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family member and went to a
detox.

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And when I was in the detox I
knew that I I knew that I

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personally needed a program
because if I was basically

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allowed my freedom a little bit,
I was going to get high again.

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So and I knew I needed something
long term because of how heavy

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my addiction was so.
So you needed structure.

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Oh yeah, yeah, I definitely
needed structure and the

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structure of the program I went
to is is helped me a lot.

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So yeah, I went to the program.
It was a ended up being a two

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year program and went there in
2017, graduated in 2019.

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And yeah, I've been just trying
to do the recovery thing ever

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since.
Of course, I've had my struggles

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and, you know, being clean and
not having anything in your

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system, you start seeing like,
or started like my mental health

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issues started like coming out.
And because you're when you're

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fucked up all the time, you're
not, you don't know what's going

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on.
So yeah, like when I started

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focusing on my health and those
things like that, mental health

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was bad.
And so, yeah, eventually, like

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maybe only two or three years
ago, it's been almost eight

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years I've been in recovery.
Two or three years ago, I

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finally had to get back on some
medication for my anxiety and

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depression because between the
time I graduated and the time I

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got back on medication and I had
coping skills good enough to

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halfway deal with it.
But like I said, it just got to

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the point where I couldn't,
couldn't just rely on that

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anymore.
So I got on my medications.

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And then this year's been a a
rough year.

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And as some struggles that for
the first time since being in

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recovery I I almost went back
into active addiction and found

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kratom and it kept me from doing
that.

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I'm so glad you found kratom.
That's awesome.

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Now, Misty, you were not trying
to seek recovery.

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Your story's a little bit
different.

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Why don't you tell us about
that?

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When I got fired from pain
management in April of 2019, I

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got fired because, you know,
when you go to pain management,

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at that time you were supposed
to sign these contracts, you

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know, and in that contract it
said that I could be called in

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for a pill count at any time.
I never thought it would happen

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to me because it never happened
before.

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And so I got called in for a
pill count.

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I didn't show up because I was
11 pills short.

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You know, I was at jury duty
when I got called in and I was

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like, I can't make it today
before 5:00 PM.

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They were like, OK, we'll give
you 24 hours to come in.

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I couldn't find any of my drug
dealers that had any of those

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pink oxycodone tins.
You know, they had 20s.

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They had 30s, but they were
different colors.

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So I just didn't show up.
So I got fired.

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And what I did was I went to the
streets and started doing

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cocaine while I was in search of
a new pain management doctor

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because, you know, cocaine
leaves your system pretty

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quickly.
You know, just in case I did

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find a new pain management
doctor, I could go in and clean

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pee or, yeah, have clean pee.
But my next step was heroin.

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I was flirting with the idea to
do heroin.

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I rationalized with myself
saying that snorting cocaine

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would be better than injecting
heroin, you know, So that was my

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mindset at the time.
And then June 2019, you know, my

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kids father came out here for my
second daughter's graduation

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from high school.
And the night that we dropped

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him off at the airport, you
know, I smoked my giggly Bush.

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And then I was flipping through
Netflix so I could try to find

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something to watch.
And what showed up was that

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documentary, A Leap of Faith.
The name didn't catch my eye.

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It was that prescription bottle
with the leaf coming out of it.

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That's what caught my eye.
So I was like, you know what?

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I'll, I'll just sit here and
chill.

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Just, you know, puff on my weed
and watch this.

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And that's what I did.
And the very next day, I went to

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the smoke shop and bought the
kratom that was featured in that

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documentary.
And here I am almost 5 1/2 years

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later been a kratom consumer.
That's amazing.

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I love that you discovered
kratom through the documentary.

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I've said same with me.
That was a popular documentary

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in 2019.
It was making the rounds.

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People were talking about it on
Netflix, and I just casually saw

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it when I was, you know,
scrolling through Netflix one

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night.
And I'm like, what's this?

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That artwork was brilliant on
their part.

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Like that was some great
marketing because it really

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spoke to me as well.
Now, Cassie, you discovered

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kratom a little bit differently.
Tell us about how I know when

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I've chatted with you before,
you discovered kratom years

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back, but it didn't sound
appealing.

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And then Fast forward to this
year, you went and learned more

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about it.
So tell us about like when you

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first heard about it and then
getting started with it now.

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Yeah, so a few years ago I had a
roommate and he was addict in

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recovery as well.
We had gone in the same program.

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But anyway, he was using it and
I didn't know what it was.

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And he pretty much explained
because he was a heroin addict

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and opioids, you know, all of
those kinds of drugs.

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And he explained that it was
helping him from, he did say it

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was helping him from craving it,
but he did say it was like

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heroin and that it was extremely
addictive.

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So when he said all that, I was
like, you know, I just dismissed

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it and didn't think nothing of
it.

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And then I do remember seeing it
in smoke shop since I've been

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smoking again, but I just didn't
pay it any mind.

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And then I saw a video, I cannot
remember where, but it was

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positive information.
So that's when I started looking

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into it and I don't know how
long or anything before between

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that and when I started, but
yeah, I did a lot of research

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and then went to the smoke shop
but accidentally got it back in

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hand.
But now I'm on whole leaf powder

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and it, it saved me.
It saved my life because like I

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said, when I was having this
rough year, I was just started

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drinking a lot and I was looking
for more.

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I knew I was looking to get high
in some way.

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And I did 2 weekends in a row.
But I just, I saw myself going

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back to that life and if
freedom, if I hadn't seen that

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video, I'd probably be in active
addiction right now or dead or

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in prison.
And that's what we do in active

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addiction was we were constantly
chasing the fact that we could

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escape reality.
Oh yeah, yeah.

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We didn't want to deal with
nothing, you know?

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We wanted to just walk around
numb all the time.

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Yeah, Cassie, when you first
heard about kratom through that

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guy, you knew through recovery,
was there like a perception with

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others in recovery?
Like this stuff's no good.

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Nobody should be using this like
they don't view it as a harm

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reduction tool.
Yeah.

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And now that you're asking me
that, I do remember.

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So our program was extremely
strict.

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It was almost like being in the
military.

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But like you, they had rules on
everything, and if you broke the

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rules, you got in trouble.
Well, one thing we had to do was

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call out our punishment in front
of the whole community.

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But like one night a week we had
to say what we did and how many

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days we got, which was what our
punishment was.

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It's a long explanation, but
anyway.

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And I remember the men in the
program calling out that they

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got in trouble for having kratom
on them.

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I'd forgotten all about this,
but I guess they had gotten it.

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00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,520
We had a lot of contract jobs
that we worked and they, you

226
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,000
know, people can get stuff from
these jobs and bring them back

227
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,480
to the program or whatever.
So anyway, they got in trouble

228
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,080
for it.
So I do remember that instance,

229
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,920
but still at that time I had no
clue what it was.

230
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,040
So then when the guy said
something, my roommate, I guess

231
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,640
I had thought about that too.
That was probably that was

232
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,520
another thing that why I just
missed it.

233
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,760
But anyway, when my roommate was
consuming it, I do remember

234
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,360
others that we still were in
contact with from your program.

235
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,640
They would be like, Oh yeah, so
and so is doing kratom and blah,

236
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,240
blah, blah.
Or say they would they relapse

237
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:47,200
Like so the people in recovery
have a big misconception of his

238
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,840
will, including apparently the
people that ran the program.

239
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,080
Because like I said, I mean
they, I don't know what their

240
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,080
like explanation of it was
because we weren't even allowed

241
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,480
to like take medication like it
was.

242
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,240
Pretty were y'all allowed to
drink like Red Bulls and

243
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,640
monsters and smoke cigarettes
and.

244
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,120
You could smoke cigarettes, you
could point.

245
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,160
It out like that?
Sorry, was that more like a

246
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,040
humiliation tactic?
Steve, that's what it feels like

247
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,360
to me.
But the way they explain it into

248
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,840
the program is just being
accountable for your action.

249
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,760
I don't know why we had to say
it in front of everybody, but

250
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:29,280
yeah, I mean, look, I could do a
whole episode on this program,

251
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,600
but there was a lot of things
with it that made all of this

252
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,800
question the people that ran it.
Because I mean, she, I just

253
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,120
truly believe that if you're
going to run a recovery program,

254
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,200
that you should care about
people and care about their

255
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,880
recovery.
Because this lady, as much as

256
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,200
she claimed that this and this
was for you and help your

257
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,360
recovery, she was the most
judgmental, mean, hateful person

258
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,160
I've ever met in my life.
Seemed like she was projecting.

259
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:02,240
She ran a lot of people off and
I stayed because she my goal was

260
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,000
to get my recovery and to get my
family back and all that.

261
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,840
I, I had a lot of issues with
her, but I was like, I was

262
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,960
focused in on me.
I had to, but it was, it was

263
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,440
something else.
But the structure of it, like

264
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,280
the way we had to do different
phases and stuff of it and you

265
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,800
get like more privileges in
certain phases and blah, blah,

266
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,680
blah.
Like the way that that was

267
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,960
structured and then the classes
they had us take and stuff like

268
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,200
that.
I really liked the way that was.

269
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,040
It helped me a lot.
Now I can't sit here and say

270
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,640
that if that day that I decided
I was tired and I found kratom

271
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,960
that I've been I've been good
this whole time without a

272
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,880
program, I probably would have.
But you know, I didn't do it

273
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,000
that way.
I didn't know about.

274
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,240
I kind of wish I did, you know,
because I, you know, I would

275
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,120
have been.
But you know, I look at it this

276
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,320
way, the things that they did
offer in the program that I

277
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,080
didn't have access to where you,
you know, talk all your stuff,

278
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,320
figure out your wise, like you
say, Misty.

279
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,640
I mean, we did stuff like that,
anger management, all kinds of

280
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,480
different things.
Like those things, they helped

281
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,000
me and, you know, especially the
coping skills with anger and

282
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,440
stress and, you know, just
dealing with, you know, it

283
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,800
helped me a lot until it didn't
this year.

284
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,400
Could you imagine how much
better a program like that would

285
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,360
be if they introduce plant based
recovery into the mix?

286
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,600
I know John Schoenholzer is
trying to make that happen with

287
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,000
more places, but that would just
have been amazing.

288
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,000
I really would love to get
involved in something like that.

289
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,120
I think it's amazing and I
think.

290
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:43,800
I do too.
I do too.

291
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,240
You know, the thing about it
though, is that OK, it's my flex

292
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,800
to sit here and say that I never
went to a detox program.

293
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,240
I never went to recovery center
recovery meeting 12 step A a in

294
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,560
a you know, suboxone, methadone,
you know, because I was not

295
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,800
looking for recovery when I
found kratom.

296
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,880
I was just looking for something
to help me to go through, you

297
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,880
know, because I was in cocaine
withdrawal at the time, you

298
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,160
know, and, and my I was still
planning on trying to find a

299
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,160
doctor, you know, because hey, I
got this chronic pain and ain't

300
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,680
never going to go away.
But inadvertently, kratom helped

301
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:20,720
my chronic.
Pain.

302
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,599
Yeah.
So like you weren't ready to be

303
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,160
done, but it came along and it
said all right, you're done.

304
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,920
Yeah.
Kratom it's.

305
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,080
Like you're going to be ready
for this shit, bitch.

306
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,760
You better strap up and get
ready.

307
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,680
I gave you that opportunity to
focus on your whys like you

308
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,760
always talk about, which I love.
That is amazing.

309
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,240
Well, especially since Misty,
you weren't even looking for

310
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,520
recovery.
Recovery came looking for you.

311
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,440
Yes, it did.
It sure did.

312
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,640
Through a plant.
Through a plant and when I

313
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,120
started advocating on social
media, I was, you know, one

314
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:56,960
hashtag I did create was Kratom
is recovery.

315
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:58,760
But you know, some hater
wouldn't reported that.

316
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,240
So I stopped using that, you
know, so, but during the because

317
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,440
I, I got on TikTok in like the
winter time of 2020, you know,

318
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,040
America was locked down in the
pandemic, you know, all that

319
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,480
bullshit.
So I just started focusing on

320
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,280
getting social media content
out.

321
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,600
I want people to know that
kratom is an option.

322
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,560
You know, it helped me, you
know, and so when I started

323
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,920
doing that, I got a lot of
backlash from the abstinence

324
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,040
recovery community, from the Mac
community.

325
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,320
And you know what, I just, I
didn't lay down and take it, you

326
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,880
know, they just fueled my
advocacy fire, right?

327
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,240
But I would also love to see
plant based recovery centers.

328
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,400
I know funding would be
extremely hard because, you

329
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,640
know, hey, big pharma is making
profits off off a prescribed

330
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,320
Suboxone methadone.
So therefore these states get

331
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840
grant funding to open up
recovery centers, you know, all

332
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,600
that stuff.
But hopefully John Shenholzer

333
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,000
can, you know, lead the way on
that, figure out a way to do it.

334
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,920
That would be so I think it
would be amazing in in recovery

335
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:04,760
centers and I've always.
Had this idea that because I got

336
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,640
arrested quite a few times, you
know, in my active addiction and

337
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,400
every single time that I got
arrested, I had to withdraw in

338
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,840
jail.
I think it would be a perfect

339
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,040
time to introduce somebody to
kratom when they're being

340
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,960
arrested for something.
Yeah, what a great idea.

341
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,360
Then they're finding, they're
finding recovery and.

342
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,760
And.
Yep, and seeing their

343
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,000
withdrawals right.
Thank God man, I was.

344
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,680
Oh God, withdrawing in jail is
the worst.

345
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:40,160
I used to work in a jail and I
remember seeing people withdraw.

346
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,360
And this was way back before I
even knew much about it, but I

347
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:48,640
would see people in withdrawal
in themselves and it was, it was

348
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,080
awful.
I mean, you would think that

349
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,360
would have kept me from going
and doing it, but but anyway.

350
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,240
But yeah, it's awful to see
people going through that.

351
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,320
And it's like, I don't want to
say everybody thinks this way,

352
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,480
but it's almost like some of the
correctional officers are just

353
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,040
like, well, that's what they
deserve.

354
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,040
They're in jail, you know, so.
They get pleasure, I see in the

355
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,440
suffering and I think, you know,
introducing somebody to kratom,

356
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,520
if they're if they got arrested
for drugs and they have to go to

357
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,920
jail, you know, for whatever
reason, and you know, introduce

358
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,920
them to Kratom then and that
right there will plant a seed in

359
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,640
their head.
Because when I first found

360
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,640
kratom, it was depressing pause
in my brain from the cravings.

361
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,920
That's what I noticed first.
I was like, I went six hours

362
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,520
without thinking about calling
my coke dealer, without thinking

363
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,320
about calling my pill dealer.
I had calm.

364
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,760
I was calm.
And then I got up.

365
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,640
I started jamming to music.
I was, I did my laundry, I

366
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,160
cleaned the house.
I cooked dinner for my kids.

367
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,800
I didn't notice it during the
time.

368
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,800
It wasn't until I went to bed
that night was when I was

369
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,400
thinking about everything I did
during that day.

370
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,560
And I was like, holy shit.
I did not think about calling my

371
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,920
dealers.
I did all this without being

372
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,760
high on something.
But it's the calmness in the

373
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,000
brain, you know, that pressing
pause, That's what I did.

374
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,560
First, Yeah.
And that, that helps me so much

375
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,160
with my anxiety too, you know,
It does.

376
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,600
It is very calm me.
It has helped so much with my

377
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,600
anxiety.
When I initially was advocating

378
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,520
on TikTok or on social media
period, I would say that I'm

379
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,760
clean, that I'm in recovery.
But it wasn't until a couple

380
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,400
years ago that, you know, I got
met with, you know, I went and

381
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,400
got some dental work done and
they were like, hey, we can

382
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,000
prescribe you some Ativan or
something, you know, for the

383
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,160
before dental procedure.
And I was like, no, I'm good.

384
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,160
And then after I got it done, I
had, because I got 5 teeth

385
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,920
pulled And when I got done, they
were like, we can give you a

386
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,000
prescription for Vicodin.
And I was like, no, I'm good.

387
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,640
I got kratom and ibuprofen.
I'm good, you know, So there

388
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,600
have been times throughout my
almost 5 1/2 years that I've

389
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,760
been faced with a chance to go
backwards.

390
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,720
And so when that happened to me
a couple times, that wasn't the

391
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,480
only time.
The other time was one of my old

392
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,240
drug dealers finally hit me up
and was like, hey, I got the

393
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,960
pink tans.
Like that was years ago.

394
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,560
But anyway, so that's when I
started changing the way that I

395
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,320
speak to myself.
I'm recovered at it now.

396
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,520
I don't identify with being an
addict in recovery or

397
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,120
recovering.
That I will always be

398
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,640
recovering.
You know, because words matter.

399
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,200
The way you speak to yourself
matters on your healing process.

400
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,400
That's true.
So you might, I mean, you know,

401
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,480
whenever you identify with, I
don't care what you identify

402
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,320
with, but you will come to a
point in your journey that

403
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,520
you'll be like, wait a minute,
I'm not a victim to this

404
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,520
anymore, right?
You know, Yeah.

405
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,640
This is.
Great, I'm loving this

406
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,480
conversation.
Yeah, that, I mean, that's the

407
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,960
biggest thing for me, especially
after this year.

408
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:04,240
Like I think and you know, this
was how we were programmed as

409
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,440
well in the program.
But I truly believe I have to

410
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,120
work on it every single day the
rest of my life because of what

411
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,040
I mean, especially after what
happened this year, because you

412
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,120
know, I'm like almost eight
years and you know, I'm good.

413
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:25,160
I, I started drinking a beer
socially a couple years back and

414
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,120
you know, blah, blah, blah.
But then what happened this year

415
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,200
happened.
And I mean, that's, that's why I

416
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,000
say I'm in recoveries, just
because I, I just know and feel

417
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,480
like I, I have to focus on it
every single day and all the

418
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,840
situations that I face and I
just have to keep it right here

419
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,280
at the forefront of my brain to
keep working on it or I'm going

420
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,000
to go back.
So, I mean, there's no right,

421
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,160
there's no right or wrong way to
think about it or anything.

422
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,280
Everybody has different,
everybody recovers differently

423
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,120
and everything else.
But we got a common denominator

424
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:03,040
going on here with the kratom
and it's saving our life.

425
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:08,320
And yeah, I mean, I, I truly
feel, you know, as long as I'm

426
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,960
taking kratom, I don't have to
worry about it because, yeah.

427
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,520
And that damn beer is still in
my refrigerator.

428
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,880
I'm going to make a video though
and pour it out.

429
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,720
But even thinking about.
It.

430
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,320
Even thinking about it, I'm like
so many.

431
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,400
People say that.
So many people I've talked to

432
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,600
said things like, I don't have
any cravings to drink anymore.

433
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,560
Yeah.
And some people said, like, they

434
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,280
didn't even have a problem with
alcohol, but they don't even

435
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,000
want to, like, just drink a beer
or a glass of wine.

436
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,920
But then you've also got people
that did have issues with

437
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,480
alcohol, but they weren't taking
kratom for that.

438
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,800
They were taking kratom like,
for their pain or maybe an

439
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,800
opioid addiction.
And they're like, I have no

440
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,320
desire to drink anymore either.
It's almost like this cherry on

441
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,760
top, like, there's all these,
like, additional things benefits

442
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,080
people get with kratom.
Yeah.

443
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,480
Like people said, like,
depression and anxiety is

444
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,720
common.
People are like, oh, and by the

445
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,680
way, not only to help my pain, I
don't have to take my anxiety

446
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,600
medicine anymore.
Yeah, I could go to the grocery

447
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,840
store and not have to feel like
a, you know.

448
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,480
Yeah, you take it for like a
particular reason, but then you

449
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,400
find all these other things that
it's helping with and it's just

450
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,000
like, wow, you know, great.
I know that's happened with you,

451
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,440
Cassie, because when I
interviewed you for the podcast

452
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:31,040
recently that you were weaning
off some of those additional

453
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,440
meds.
And I think now you've done even

454
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,960
more with that.
Is that right?

455
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,400
Are you still work?
Are you still working on it?

456
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:44,000
So I stopped for 13 days.
I did good until the end there

457
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,880
because it was that time of the
month and I just got a lot of

458
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,160
hormones going on because I have
a surgery coming up.

459
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,680
And anyway, it's just too much
for me.

460
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,920
And also, you know, just
everything else I got going on.

461
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:05,160
And so I started back on one of
the medications, the one that's

462
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,320
a combination for depression and
anxiety, and I'd only take it

463
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,720
every other night.
And I had an appointment with my

464
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,800
doctor anyway two weeks ago, I
think, and I talked to her about

465
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,880
it and she said as long as I'm
not going through whatever, I

466
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,520
hadn't talked to her about
kratom yet.

467
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,760
But I have a physical next month
and I think I'm going to bring

468
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,120
it up.
But that's another thing for

469
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:34,560
John Schinholzer.
But anyway, yeah, so I just, and

470
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,920
I just got lost, sorry.
So.

471
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,960
So you haven't been comfortable
mentioning kratom to doctors

472
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,920
yet?
Well, mainly for, you know, the

473
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,600
reasons we were discussing
earlier.

474
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,400
But I mean, at the same time,
like, I feel it's important to

475
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,480
let them know what's helping me.
And yeah, I mean, we'll see.

476
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,960
I'll let you on.
I didn't mention it to any

477
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,760
doctors my first few years.
I just wasn't sure how any of

478
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,480
them would react, especially
because when you Google kratom,

479
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,480
there's so much misinformation
and propaganda and stuff.

480
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,240
And I was concerned that, you
know, doctors would get mad or

481
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,320
tell me I can't take it.
But then I got to the point was

482
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,000
like, well, I know more than any
of them because they don't seem

483
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,720
to know anything about kratom
anyway.

484
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,880
But it's like, we can flip the
script.

485
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,000
We can fire a doctor if we don't
like them.

486
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,160
We don't have to keep using
them.

487
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,720
So I just decided to be more
vocal and just explained that,

488
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,200
you know, I take a botanical
supplement called Kratom for my

489
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,240
chronic pain and I've yet to
meet a doctor locally here that

490
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,720
even knew what it was and none
of them had an issue with it.

491
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,360
As a matter of fact, I sat here
was the one educating them and I

492
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,320
always tell them to go to
kratomanswers.org because that

493
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,160
is a great website from the AKA
that has a lot of the science

494
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,960
backed information.
So I feel like somebody in the

495
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,480
medical profession, it would be,
I think content that they would

496
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,400
resonate with because it's just
more science based.

497
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,400
But you know, you do what you're
comfortable with and.

498
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,360
Yeah.
I mean, like I said, the

499
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,840
combination that I have going on
right now is working great for

500
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,760
me.
And yeah.

501
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080
That's all that matters, right?
That's all that.

502
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,920
Matters, it works.
So I'm good.

503
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,680
I probably shouldn't.
I mean I did taper down for like

504
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,320
2 months but I still had those
brains out and then like I said,

505
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,760
just that on top of everything I
I was a literal like crying all

506
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,640
day every day.
I was a mess.

507
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,440
But another thing I wanted to
mention to you is like right

508
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,320
after that, I had a big
appointment for some things, but

509
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,120
it was a mental health
appointment and I saw a

510
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,520
different doctor and I don't
know if it was the way that he

511
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,040
asked questions or what.
But anyway, come to find out

512
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,320
like my anxiety is like way more
severe than I thought it was or

513
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,560
we even thought it was.
And so that it's, I just, it's

514
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,240
probably not going to be helpful
for me to completely get off of

515
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,000
it.
But like I said, I I've been

516
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,880
able to decrease my dose a lot
and the combination of both has

517
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,920
been good.
I think that's great and it

518
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,640
probably gives others hope to
know that there's, you know,

519
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,800
people out there that were able
to do that.

520
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,240
I think that's great and you and
you do what works for you.

521
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,320
Yeah.
I mean, I have nothing at all

522
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,800
against the medications.
Well, I'm not against taking

523
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,040
medications, but the
medications, like I said, were

524
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,040
helping me in some areas but
hurting me in other areas.

525
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,480
Like I was talking about before,
you know, I was numb and a lot

526
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,680
of things, I couldn't cry.
I didn't feel things and it was

527
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,680
just.
That's how I was on Prozac.

528
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,040
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah.

529
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,440
And this was Lexapro for me.
And then they ended up, I told

530
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,160
them about that and they added
Wellbutrin on top of it.

531
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,920
So, yeah.
And if if I had started saying,

532
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,920
OK, well this is going on now,
would they probably would have

533
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,920
put another medicine on there?
That's what they typically do.

534
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:10,760
They stack them.
They.

535
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,400
Stack them?
Yeah, it's called stacking.

536
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,160
I ain't doing it.
Yeah, I'm stacking it.

537
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,760
Good.
Good for you taking charge of

538
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,640
your healthcare.
Yeah, I mean utilizing a plant.

539
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,960
I want to be able to feel, you
know what I mean?

540
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,520
I want to be me, you know?
If I'm sad and I need to cry, I

541
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,040
want to cry.
It's so therapeutic.

542
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,080
Oh yeah, all of it, you know,
Yeah, Laughing I.

543
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:38,640
Just remember like back in I
quit Prozac in 2009 because that

544
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,520
was when my epilepsy had started
and I thought maybe the high, I

545
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,280
was on a high ass dose of
Prozac.

546
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,560
I thought, OK, maybe that's
what's causing my seizures.

547
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,400
But it wasn't, you know?
But I quit it at the time and I

548
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,920
remember the brain zaps too.
It takes a while for your brain

549
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,440
to heal.
It really does.

550
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,000
But I remember being just I
didn't give a shit about fuck,

551
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,840
you know, I didn't care.
I got fired from the post office

552
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,360
that I was a an employee for 11
years.

553
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,760
You know, I worked my ass off.
I didn't give a shit.

554
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,320
I didn't want to fight while I
was getting fired and nothing,

555
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,080
you know, I lost my house, had
to go move in with my parents or

556
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,200
my three kids.
You know, I didn't care about

557
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,840
shit.
Yeah, that's how it is.

558
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,480
And I was on Prozac from like
2006 to 2009.

559
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,480
Missy, do you feel like Cray
even though you stopped that way

560
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,800
before you started kratom?
Do you feel like kratom still

561
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,960
kind of fills a void for that?
Yeah, it does it.

562
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,040
You know, there's times that
like, you know, my story where

563
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,080
around this time of year when I
found my brother dead in

564
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:44,000
November 2012 and holidays come
up and because my mom, dad and

565
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,080
brother are dead, there's times
around this time of year.

566
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,960
It's like, I don't know, maybe
it's like that seasonal

567
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,560
depression that kicks in or
whatever.

568
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,080
Plus, you know, on top of that,
I still do relive the moments in

569
00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:00,120
my head, but I don't get sad to
where one I'm going to go cry

570
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,880
and, you know, go curl up in my
bed and call my drug dealers or

571
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,160
anything like that.
I don't want to escape when I'm

572
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,600
feeling I will sit with it.
I will feel it, confront it and

573
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,640
slay it.
That's.

574
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,280
My, that's exactly what you have
to do.

575
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Yeah, I'm not.
Running.

576
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,920
I'm no one running, you know.
My mom passed away in November

577
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,320
of 2012 as well.
She died of overdose.

578
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,960
Yeah.
You know, and that was my

579
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,640
brother's death in November of
2012 was like the number one

580
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,360
reason why I spiraled even more
out of control in my addiction.

581
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,080
It was that PTSD that I was
living with that whole did I not

582
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,200
do the CPR right?
Did I call the ambulance on

583
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,520
time?
You know, seeing his body being

584
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,480
wheeled out in a body bag on a
stretcher.

585
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,520
It was this constant stuff that
I was reliving and questioning

586
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,520
all the what ifs, the what ifs,
what ifs, what ifs.

587
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,560
And you know, February 2012 was
when we lost our dad.

588
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,480
And then in April 2018, towards
the ending of my addiction, you

589
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,320
know, I had to take my mom off
life support.

590
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,720
I live in Colorado, she lived in
Montana.

591
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,600
And I had to make that decision
over the phone to take her off

592
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,360
life support.
So there was a lot of stuff I

593
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,000
was just trying to escape from.
And but like I said, I survived

594
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,600
the over prescribing epidemic
and I could have got pain pills

595
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,720
anytime I freaking wanted, you
know, I could go pay cash for

596
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,880
one doctor, pay cash for my
script.

597
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,960
Two hours later I go to my
insurance doctor and get my

598
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,440
insurance scripts so I'd be
loaded up.

599
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,320
Yeah, it wasn't hard to do all
that back in the day.

600
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,680
Cassie, do you feel like kratom
has filled that void as well

601
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,840
with those other meds that
you've taper down off of the

602
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,440
bed?
Yeah, definitely.

603
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,680
Like I was saying, the issues I
was having with just the

604
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,200
Lexapro, and then I talked to
the doctor and they put the

605
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,720
Wellbutrin on everything that I
wasn't feeling when I was just

606
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,840
on the Lexapro.
It opened up just a little bit

607
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,960
with the Wellbutrin.
But you know, but now I feel I'm

608
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:12,000
still taking the Lex Pro, but I
feel all my feelings, you know,

609
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,840
but I do have that good sense of
well-being, like even even in

610
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,280
these times of stress and, or
sad times and everything else I

611
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,239
still have, I have like a
positive mindset most of the

612
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,320
time now, you know, like it's
going to be all right or use my

613
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,560
language, but fuck it.
Or you know what I mean,

614
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,040
whatever the situation calls
for, whatever, you know, that's

615
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,159
what I mean.
That's what you know whenever

616
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,719
people talk about the mood lift
with kratom, you know, that's

617
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,159
what we're explaining right
here.

618
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,120
Right.
Yeah, yeah, there's.

619
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,760
Something that happens in our
yeah, if something negative

620
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,760
happens in our life, which it
has a couple times during my 5

621
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,320
1/2 years, I don't automatically
sit and dwell on the doom and

622
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,560
gloom.
Right.

623
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,320
There's a light at the end of.
Every negative.

624
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,160
Happens, yeah.
I've always dwelled on the doom

625
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,240
and gloom, you know, but now I'm
like, it's going to be all

626
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,360
right.
I've been in this situation 100

627
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,360
times before.
I'm going to get through it

628
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,920
again, you know, And then I also
like right.

629
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,080
And also I'm like ready to go,
ready to do what I got to do to

630
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,280
take care of it.
Like just let's do this and

631
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,080
let's look at it in a positive
way rather than sulking and, you

632
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,480
know, being being depressed
about it.

633
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,960
I'm not.
Grabbing that bull by the horns

634
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,480
and riding that motherfucker.
Yeah.

635
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:43,800
I'm a Taurus, that's my.
Sign I love it Misty, how do you

636
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,200
address the stigma and
misconception surrounding

637
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,000
kratom, especially within the
recovery community?

638
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,000
By loudly and proudly advocating
my ass off and not giving a

639
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,840
goddamn fuck what anybody says,
Perry.

640
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,440
My dog.
Mic drop.

641
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,560
Mic drop.
Nobody you know you.

642
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,880
You can claim that you
understand what I say when I was

643
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,960
in active addiction this, that
and 3rd.

644
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,960
But until you walked a mile in
my shoes, you don't know shit

645
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,560
right?
You know I got myself back, my

646
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,440
kids got their mother back.
My kids no longer have to worry

647
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,720
about coming home and finding me
nodded off somewheres or

648
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:28,360
worrying about touching me if
I'm going to be cold and dead.

649
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,280
So your opinions are just
opinions?

650
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,280
Yeah, that's it.
How do you address the stigma

651
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,760
and misconception surrounding
kratom, especially in the

652
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,880
recovery community?
Same thing Misty said.

653
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,680
But just putting the facts out
there, the correct information,

654
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:52,160
doing the research and just loud
and proud advocating not giving

655
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,560
a fuck.
What do you might think it's

656
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,360
like?
And if, if they have negative

657
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:02,160
things to say, you know, we can
talk about it and but just don't

658
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,960
come with, with things that are
not true.

659
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,760
Like it's facts, you know, like
if you're going to do that, you

660
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,880
better be ready to show some
some proof because.

661
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,400
Ready to back that ass?
Up.

662
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,600
Yeah, bring.
That I'm tired of people like

663
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,600
saying all this crap about
kratom, that it's not true and

664
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,880
it's just causing too much shit
for us.

665
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,120
Now it gets me that consumed it
responsibly.

666
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,880
Yeah, when people say you traded
one addiction for another and

667
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,080
I'm just always like, you know
what?

668
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,680
I don't subscribe.
I don't subscribe to that

669
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,440
brainwashed AANA stuff.
I don't, you know.

670
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,760
So go ahead, keep talking about
your ass.

671
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,280
But once you start the phone
calling then I'm a block your

672
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,600
ass.
Yeah.

673
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,880
Now those people that say that
they're not addict, right, They

674
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,600
haven't been in addiction.
I mean for those.

675
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,200
I, I mean, I don't know some of
them, you know, because they I

676
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,800
can tell whenever it's a a in a
commenter.

677
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,120
Gotcha.
Well, we get all kinds of

678
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,800
comments on our Tik Toks, you
know, because people love to

679
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:10,000
come in and come into our videos
that we put out and come in and

680
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,360
just get into the comments and
say a bunch of crap as if it's

681
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,760
their account that they're
invading, not your own.

682
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,120
And trying to preach about how
bad kratom is with I mean

683
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,560
usually no first hand
experience.

684
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,600
Yeah, yeah.
If people just understood the

685
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:35,960
addict behaviors and what
addicts do to get their next fix

686
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,560
and then they see us with holy
powder like it is not the same.

687
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,200
People might be doing that with
the extracts, people that are

688
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,600
abusing it or whatever, but it's
not kratom.

689
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,960
Let me give you an example
because there's this, you know,

690
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,680
that whole Mississippi news
story about Mississippi coming

691
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:55,960
up to ban kratom, all that
stuff.

692
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,560
I always tell people, go drop
their testimonies in the

693
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,160
comments sections right on
Facebook.

694
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,400
Now this guy said, I said I'm a
recovered junkie and quote

695
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,560
quotations because I found
kratom over five years ago.

696
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,120
He says You mean an active
junkie since you found kratom.

697
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,800
I said I no longer beg, borrow
or steal for FDA approved

698
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,440
pharmaceuticals.
I'm no longer on my knees

699
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,600
slobbering DS for cocaine.
I got myself back.

700
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,800
My kids got their mother back.
I'm no longer on Medicaid,

701
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,000
Section 8 or food stamps.
I pay taxes now.

702
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,000
Oh yeah.
You know, comments like that.

703
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,440
We get comments like that.
Oh yeah, yeah, I've already been

704
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,320
getting some.
Yeah, I ain't worried about it.

705
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:43,120
My whole lifestyle did a
complete 180 after I found I

706
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,440
moved out of the ghetto, you
know, I got off Section 8, no

707
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,240
longer on the food stamps.
Like I was saying, you know, I

708
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:52,320
freaking I moved cities, moved
into a big ass house.

709
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,560
You know, no, I'm not freaking
being sponsored by kratom

710
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,400
companies.
So don't come at me saying that

711
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,400
bullshit either.
That did happen before where

712
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,240
someone said, oh, she moved into
a big house.

713
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:03,760
She must be getting paid good
money.

714
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,480
No, Misty won't even talk about
vendors.

715
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,880
No.
God, idiot.

716
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:13,760
So that's what I thought about
earlier.

717
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,480
I wanted to talk a little bit
more about what I suffered

718
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,080
through while I was in active
addiction as far as my kid goes,

719
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,640
because I haven't even talked
about that yet.

720
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,840
So my my son, I think my whole
all of my story, probably when

721
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:34,400
he was about 10 years old.
And so before that his father

722
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:40,920
got on heroin really bad and I
remember hating him for it and

723
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,880
not letting him see him and all
that kind of shit.

724
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,360
And then whatever happened
happened fewer few years later,

725
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,520
there I am.
So my kid at the same time has

726
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:55,640
both parents in active addiction
sometimes use them together.

727
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:57,880
And we weren't even together
anyway.

728
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,720
But my son was like, yeah, my
son was yeah.

729
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,600
It was really only about like
getting the money and getting

730
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,240
the the drug.
And then we just did our thing

731
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:11,560
and and then the next time
whatever.

732
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,560
But anyway, but my son tell a
huge front of my addiction and

733
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,600
ended up where he he end up
living at so many different

734
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,400
places.
I can't even tell you how many

735
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,360
anymore, but he had to live with
his aunt.

736
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:31,400
He went with his dad for a
minute, not long, and then went

737
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,920
back to his aunt, went to my
dad's, went into foster care

738
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:40,480
while I was in a program Anyway,
so he's just been through all of

739
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,800
it and it's just been bad
because I wasn't able to raise

740
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,240
him really.
But yeah, so I lost relationship

741
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,720
with him.
I lost relationship with with my

742
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:54,360
dad, who, you know, I'm daddy's
girl.

743
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,320
So he didn't talk to me for like
3 years.

744
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,840
You know, it's just all of that.
Everything that comes with

745
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,280
active addiction, you know, you
lose everything you have off

746
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,040
homeless.
I lived in my car, I lived in a

747
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,840
homeless shelter, I helped
Derfed a little bit, just all

748
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,360
kinds of stuff.
And it was just an absolute

749
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,080
mess.
And it was somewhere that I

750
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,640
never, ever thought that I would
be.

751
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,560
Because it makes you not, I
mean, it makes you like all your

752
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,320
morals are out the window, you
know?

753
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,760
I mean, you do whatever it takes
and it didn't even matter.

754
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,560
And yes, you love your family.
You don't want to lose your

755
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,560
family and everything, but
that's how much it takes control

756
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,040
over you.
But you love the drug more.

757
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,640
Right, yeah.
And you can't help that like

758
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,360
it's anyways and you know.
People think that when you're an

759
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,600
active addict like that, people
automatically assume that it's

760
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,400
the drug.
You're also addicted to the

761
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,320
chase of the drug.
Whether you want to admit or

762
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,360
not, you're addicted to the
lifestyle that comes with it.

763
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,880
Whether you get more of a
lifestyle or less of a

764
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,960
lifestyle.
It's the whole constant chase.

765
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:04,760
Of it, yeah.
And also.

766
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Because once you get it, you
know, you're, you feel like

767
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,840
you're a king of the world, You
know, once you got your drug.

768
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Yeah.
And also I will say this, if you

769
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,040
are AIV drug user, you get
addicted to that as well.

770
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,480
The whole, just the process, the
whole process of it.

771
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,840
And it's weird because I don't
know, but that was a a big issue

772
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,960
I had and.
Yeah, because towards the end of

773
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,840
my addiction, I was snorting my
pills and I was smoking them off

774
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,520
aluminum foil.
And then, you know, like I said,

775
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,480
when I got fired from pain
management, I went to doing

776
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,400
cocaine.
And you do.

777
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,240
You get addicted to crushing up
the rock.

778
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:47,160
You get addicted to put the
straw on your nose hoping you

779
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,960
don't make your nose bleed, you
know?

780
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,560
And then, like I said, I knew I
knew where to get the heroin,

781
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,200
you know, So I was so close.
I was so close to putting that

782
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,920
needle in my arm before I found
kratom.

783
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,920
I'm so glad you didn't, because
do you know what my dumb ass

784
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,040
said before I did heroin?
I said, oh, I just want to try

785
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,360
it one time.
No.

786
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:09,040
Oh.
Yeah.

787
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,560
Oh wow.
Somebody actually shot it up for

788
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,160
me.
It was actually never mind, but

789
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,560
yeah.
And I remember passing out,

790
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,560
waking up later.
I didn't know what the hell is

791
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,920
going on, but I felt I I was
done after that.

792
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,720
I was asking for more an hour
after I woke up and then yeah,

793
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:31,920
that went on for a few years and
got to where I couldn't get in

794
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,360
anymore because I owed everybody
a lot of money.

795
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,920
So then somebody I knew like had
cocaine all the time.

796
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,040
So I started shooting up that
and then started living with

797
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:49,160
this way older gentleman just
because I didn't have anywhere

798
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,640
to go and he was willing to take
me in and he it come ended up

799
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,640
being a crack dealer.
So then I started doing that.

800
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,760
Just whatever I had access to.
It was terrible, like.

801
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,200
Convenience.
It was a convenience of it all.

802
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,040
But let me tell.
Let me give you some words of

803
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,360
advice here.
Don't beat yourself up on the

804
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,960
relationship statuses.
Just continue working on you and

805
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,480
everything else will fall into
place.

806
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:15,960
Right.
Well, I mean it.

807
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,680
Happened with me.
Right.

808
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,440
I mean, all of that is, is very
good.

809
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,200
Now me and my dad have a
relationship again.

810
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,400
I mean, I have relationships
with my whole family again and

811
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,240
my son.
And yeah, we are super close now

812
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,040
and I've got 3 grandchildren
and.

813
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,400
I'm about to be a grandma.
Yes, I know.

814
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,840
I saw that.
I do edit that video.

815
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,520
Yeah, that's exciting.
I'm telling you what, it's so

816
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,200
great.
It is.

817
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,000
Well, I mean, I don't know yet,
I'm sure, but I just got to, I

818
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,040
got to go with emotions, yeah.
It's awesome.

819
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,520
But because of credo, they were
able to enjoy this.

820
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,880
Yeah, yeah.
And remember it.

821
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,040
Yeah, 'cause.
I remember every waking moment.

822
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,480
Right.
In the last eight years I have

823
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,800
gained more in my life than I
ever have before.

824
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,720
You know, like before, I never
learned how to be a responsible

825
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:10,800
adult.
I didn't pay my bills like I was

826
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,960
supposed to.
I ran my credit into the ground

827
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,840
from the get go.
Like I just did everything

828
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,440
wrong.
Spent money as soon as I got it.

829
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,840
Just never, never learned how to
be responsible.

830
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,600
Well, since I've, you know, got
sober and and whatever, I've

831
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,880
worked on all of that and I'm
really like still learning, but

832
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,240
I've been able to, you know, get
those relationships back and

833
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:38,680
have what I have.
I mean, I'm grateful for

834
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,960
everything.
Like even just, I could be

835
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,760
living in a shack right now, but
I'd be happy I had a roof over

836
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,960
my head, you know, just like,
and my son, I got so lucky with

837
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,880
him because he cannot stand
drugs.

838
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:58,200
He hates cigarettes or he does
smoke the weed, but the weed,

839
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,400
but anything else, he's like,
scared.

840
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:06,080
He's like so responsible.
He's only 22, OK, And I've got 3

841
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,680
grandkids.
But anyway, he's so responsible

842
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,200
and like with stuff like that,
he's just like.

843
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,280
But I'm so grateful for that
because I need, I, I need this

844
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,360
cycle to end.
Yeah.

845
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,200
In this family and that I was
just going to.

846
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:24,480
Say that because I broke the
generational curse.

847
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,800
I grew up with both of my
parents that were trapped in the

848
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,680
first opioid epidemic, you know,
the whole over prescribing shit

849
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:36,000
as well in the 90s.
And so I was around 5 or 6 years

850
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,760
old when, you know, I'd remember
seeing, you know, my mom and my

851
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,960
mom and dad like nodded off
somewhere or something like

852
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,080
that.
But you're young.

853
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,120
I was just a child.
I just thought they were tired,

854
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,720
you know.
So but from like 5-6 years old

855
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:55,400
till I moved out of the house
when I was 17, they were still

856
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,440
in active addiction.
They both still died when they

857
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,680
were in active addiction.
So all those years, I always say

858
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,280
I inadvertently, because I grew
up hating pills.

859
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,600
I grew up hating the fact that
my parents made us grow up

860
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,560
early, you know, all that shit.
And here I am in my late 20s,

861
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,400
doing the same things to my
kids.

862
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,840
My kids also took the brunt of
it because I've been a single

863
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,360
mom since 2006 when I started
going to pain management.

864
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,480
But the 2008 error was when I
slipped into the addiction side.

865
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,160
So yeah, I broke the
generational curse.

866
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,440
I feel like you know, and I'm
my.

867
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:33,960
Crowd.
Oh yeah, that's great.

868
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,360
And you're kids have a great
mother to look up to now.

869
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,840
I mean, it's awesome.
You know, and when they tell me

870
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,960
stuff like that, I just, I
always apologize to them.

871
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,080
I'm, I'm constantly apologizing
to them.

872
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,720
Then they're like just shut the
fuck up.

873
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,520
How do they feel about kratom,
Misty?

874
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:59,000
They absolutely love it, and you
know why they love it?

875
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,480
Because they saw me.
They saw me being from an active

876
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,600
addict in a Caterpillar, and
they saw me butterflying it, you

877
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:08,440
know?
Yeah.

878
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,360
So my progress is not
perfection, but I'm alive.

879
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,600
I got air in my lungs and they
no longer have to take care of

880
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,880
me and worry about me.
So that right there is is what

881
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,160
fills me up inside.
That's wonderful, Cassie.

882
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,840
What about your family?
How do they feel about kratom?

883
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,280
OK so I'm still pretty new.
I have not told anybody in my

884
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:34,640
family except for my son.
And he, he just said that he

885
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,840
thinks he can see a difference
in me.

886
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,000
Like, I'm a lot calmer as far as
my anxiety and stuff goes.

887
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,240
But yeah, I haven't really.
I haven't really.

888
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,360
Yeah.
I'm still in the kratom call

889
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,360
that even though I'm sitting
here on social media making all

890
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,240
these videos and, and shouting
loud and proud.

891
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,400
But I mean, if they see it, they
see it.

892
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:02,120
But I plan on my family's like
about 7 hours away and I am

893
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,240
planning on going down there
before my surgery.

894
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:07,120
And my plan is to talk to him
and tell him, you know, I don't

895
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,880
want to tell him over the phone,
just have a conversation about

896
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,600
it in person.
But I mean, they might find out

897
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,000
before then.
If not, I'll just talk.

898
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:18,120
You know, you can sit them down
and just question them and say,

899
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,280
how do you feel about the active
addiction?

900
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,280
Cassie to the Today Cassie.
Yeah.

901
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,520
And then you could fill in the
gap and be like, well, it's

902
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,760
because.
Yeah, that's a good idea.

903
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,120
That is really that's an
excellent idea.

904
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,640
Yeah, that is good.
Missy's always got great ideas.

905
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,680
Always, always old.
I think my sweet.

906
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,320
I think very.
Creative minds here.

907
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,040
Absolutely.
I think we're going to need to

908
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,120
make this into two parts because
we're already coming up on an

909
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,560
hour and I feel like we're just
getting going.

910
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:59,120
I still have so many questions.
So I feel like I could talk

911
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,520
about recovery forever, too.
Yeah.

912
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:07,200
Just sharing our three, sharing
our story is gonna, I don't know

913
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,240
it.
I remember.

914
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,560
I mean, I still do like, listen
to other people's stories.

915
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,200
And it's just, it helps so much
just to know that you're not

916
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,280
alone and that other people are
going through the same

917
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,200
struggles.
And you learn so much from other

918
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,880
people's stories.
And you can help others by

919
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,280
sharing your story.
Yeah.

920
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,160
So like, I, I mean, I, I could
talk about recovery forever.

921
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,480
I can talk about freedom
forever.

922
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,440
We can too.
You're in good company.

923
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,480
You're with the right people.
You found good people.

924
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,680
I'm so grateful to have found
y'all.

925
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,120
I'm serious.
Like I've always struggled with

926
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:50,040
relationships in my life as far
as friends and boyfriends and

927
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,200
all of that.
And everybody I've ever had in

928
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,560
my life is just, I don't know if
we're too busy and we just move

929
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,320
on or whatever the case may be.
But like I finally feel like I

930
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,680
can talk to you guys and, and
even though anybody in the world

931
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,960
can see it, I don't care.
But this is helping me and it's

932
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,160
also helping others for them to
hear it.

933
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,320
And then just having y'all
helping me and somebody I can

934
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,040
talk to and get research
resources from and everything.

935
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,440
Like I really appreciate y'all.
I can never tell y'all enough.

936
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:21,720
It's.
Free therapy.

937
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,040
It.
Truly is, you know, and just

938
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,040
like the friends that we thought
we had in active addiction, we

939
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,560
called them our friends at the
time, but it was friends with

940
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,360
benefits, right?
You know, so they it's not what

941
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,440
truly what friendship means.
Right.

942
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,560
I'm just loving this
conversation.

943
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,600
I think we'll make it a 2
parter.

944
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,880
So our listeners need to come
back for round two and we'll

945
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,000
we'll keep it going.
So y'all, thank you for your

946
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,480
time.
You're very welcome.

947
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:49,960
Yeah.
Thank you my one.

948
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,560
Thank you for listening.
You can get more information at

949
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,440
kratomstoriespodcast.com,
including show notes from this

950
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:01,040
episode.