Ep 59: From Addiction to Healing: A Kratom Journey with Misty & Kassie - Part 2

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Kratom being a harm reduction
tool, it allows you to crawl out

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of that cocoon a lot faster to
start butterflying your recovery

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because you'd like.
I don't care what people say

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about me.
I don't care.

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And because I don't care, it
allows me to continue to work on

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me.
Welcome to Kratom Stories, a

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weekly podcast where we share
stories of how this amazing

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plant has changed our lives.
I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.

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Each week I'll bring you a new
episode featuring interviews

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with experts, advocates, and
everyday people who've

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experienced the benefits of
kratom first hand.

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Join me as we dive deeper into
the world of this botanical

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wonder and discover the amazing
stories behind this incredible

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plant.
The Kratom Stories Podcast is

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presented solely for educational
purposes.

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Neither the podcast nor its host
promote or endorse the use of

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kratom, a substance not yet
regulated or approved by the

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FDA.
The views and opinions expressed

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by guests are theirs alone and
do not necessarily reflect those

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of the host or the podcast.
The content is not intended as a

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substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or

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treatment.
Always seek the advice of your

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physician or other qualified
healthcare provider with any

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questions regarding the use of
kratom.

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Before we dive into today's
episode, I want to let you know

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about Kratom Real Talk.
It's a new community for

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positive, uplifting discussions
about the power of whole leaf

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kratom.
If you'd like to be part of the

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conversation and learn more
about this plate or contribute

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your knowledge, go to
kratomrealtalk.com.

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All right, we're back for Part 2
of the Kratom Stories podcast

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with Misty and Cassie.
Our previous episode, episode

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58, we had an amazing
conversation talking about

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kratom with addiction and
recovery.

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If you have not listened to
that, please go back and listen

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to that episode first.
We're going to continue the

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discussion because there's just
so much to talk about with this

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topic.
So ladies, thank you for

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continuing this with me.
So we can keep this discussion

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going.
I want to ask you both, Misty,

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we'll start with you.
How has your life changed since

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you started using kratom as part
of your recovery?

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I'm breathing.
I did not become an overdose

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statistic.
So I went from being a drugged

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up single mom for 11 years
straight.

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You know my kids constantly
worrying if they were going to

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come home and find me dead.
You know, to thriving and

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surviving and becoming a
functional member of society

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again with air in my lungs.
Yeah, that's just amazing that

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you know how far you've come in
your journey with that.

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Cassie, what about you?
How has your life changed since

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you started using kratom as part
of your recovery?

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Oh, it's changed a lot.
It's saved my life.

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As I've said it.
I was headed back towards active

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addiction after being sober
almost eight years.

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And, you know, I was looking for
something more and I came across

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it and it saved me from going
back to that.

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I can name a million things that
kratom's done and changed in my

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life right now.
So I'm trying to figure out how

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to summarize it, but just I look
at life differently, you know, I

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see things differently.
Everything is just positive and

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I have so much like hope and
dreams now that I'm actually

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trying to chase and I just feel
like nothing has stopped me.

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I love that.
I love your enthusiasm.

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I feel like what it allows us to
do is it opens our eyes up to

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life's opportunities.
Oh yeah.

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We're we're no longer trying to
numb all that out anymore.

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Like we're actually seeing it
and grabbing a hold of it and

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running with it instead of
laying down, you know?

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Right.
Like even, you know, just

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getting on social media and
making videos and stuff like

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that.
Like, I never would have even

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thought that I would even be
trying to do it, you know?

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And just like with freedom, like
I have more confidence.

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I feel better about myself.
Like it's just, yeah, like I,

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like I said, I just see things
so, so much more different.

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And yeah, I just, I feel like I
could do anything.

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I always like to say that I felt
like I've been reborn.

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Yes, absolutely.
Like we buried the old active

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addiction selves, you know, it's
like we murdered them and kratom

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gave us the CPR, you know, to
live a second life.

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Oh, I love how you said that.
That was very good.

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Very good.
I love that.

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Yeah, the best things like that.
Oh yeah, definitely.

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Missy, what's the one thing you
wish more people understood

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about kratom and recovery?
That is not taboo, that it is an

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alternative pathway to recovery
so that you can become

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recovered.
That's what I wish.

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It needs to stop.
People need to stop.

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It's the, you know, and I
understand the stigma behind it,

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but the only way to outshine the
negativity is to shine, you

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know, come out the closet.
I'm out of the kratom closet.

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Yeah, make it be known, you
know, that not only are you

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elevating in your personal life,
you know, your family's seeing

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what you're doing, you know,
scream it from the rooftops.

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Right.
It's the only way to end the

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stigma.
Absolutely, Cassie, what's the

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one thing you wish more people
understood about kratom and

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recovery?
I mean same thing.

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It is a great tool for people to
have who are trying, who are in

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that life and we're trying to
get well or, you know, get

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clean.
And even the emotional and

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mental part of it.
I feel like it helped so much

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with that.
You know, we talked about how I

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went through a program and we
did, you know, all of the

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program things like talking
about things and taking certain

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classes and working on
ourselves.

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But I feel like the part that
kratom plays on, the mental and

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emotional part puts a lot of
that work in, if that makes any

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sense.
It's that is definitely hard to

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describe.
Yeah.

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It's.
Well, it allows you to focus on

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putting that work in because you
don't have a depressed mind,

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right?
You know, you're not constantly

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in that dull Gray effect area
where you don't feel like

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anything is going to move
forward.

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You know you're beating yourself
up for being an active addict.

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You know all that stuff.
So kratom will get in there and

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hey be happy.
Yeah, you're looking at you're

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looking at everything more
positive.

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You have hope for life.
You're not, you know, wishing

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you were dead.
Like I'm just being honest.

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But that happens a lot in active
addiction, you know, or even

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care if you did or not or you
know, and it just puts a whole

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positive mindset on anything and
just gives hope, gives you know

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the motivation to work on
things.

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And it's just it's just amazing.
Like I still can't believe that

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a plant can do all that this one
does.

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But as.
We say it's a pharmacy and a

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plant.
Yeah, one with nature.

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Right.
And when you're in that state,

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you know, you just are, you're
depressed, you're negative about

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everything.
You are, you're worried about

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being judged.
You are worried about what other

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people think because you're just
so, you know, overwhelmed with

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shame.
And, you know, and just being on

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the flip side of that and just
not caring what anybody thinks

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and doing what I got to do for
me and, you know, fighting for

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this and wishing people wouldn't
weren't criminalizing it.

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Like it just, it can do so much
for so many people.

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I feel like, you know, as you
said, kratom being a harm

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reduction tool, it allows you to
crawl out of that cocoon a lot

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faster to start butterflying
your recovery, you know, because

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you'd like, I don't care what
people say about me.

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I don't care, you know, and
because I don't care, it allows

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me to continue to work on me.
When you're in active addiction,

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you kind of make yourself care
what other people think of you

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because you have to keep that
same group of so-called friends

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around.
You know all that stuff where

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you got to, you got to put up a
a fake person.

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Right.
And I agree with what you said

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as far as having that, getting
out of that cocoon faster,

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having all of that time that
most people spend to get better.

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Like I did a two year program
and in that two years, it's,

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it's so unfortunate, but it does
allow for, you know, you're not

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completely healed.
I mean, I'm not ever going to

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say completely healed for
anyone, but if you're not to

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that point where you're ready to
have a clean and sober life,

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then you're just, you're still
working on things and things

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come up in the middle of that.
I have seen so many people leave

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that program just in the two
years that I was there.

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And also, I can probably name at
least 20 people that I knew that

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went through that program that
are not here today.

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Oh, wow.
Yeah.

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It's terrible.
And.

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So what you're basically
describing is you're stunting

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your own recovery growth.
Yeah.

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I've never been to meetings or
recovery centers or anything

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like that.
So is it socially acceptable for

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people to be put on
antidepressants as they are

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detoxing or what have you?
Not while they were in the

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program, like when I was in
there.

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Oh, you want to hear some story
like, yeah, we weren't allowed.

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We weren't allowed to have
anything unless, you know, of

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course, you know, if somebody
had insulin or something like

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that.
But yeah, like you weren't

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allowed to have to be on birth
control.

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You weren't allowed to be on any
kind of mental health

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medications whatsoever.
So if you were on it when you

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came to the program, like they
told you up front that you

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couldn't be on those medications
and that you weren't going to be

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on them.
So people had to get off their

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medic or whatever.
Or just.

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So I have a story about the
birth control, though, that I

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really want to share because the
whole reason I'm getting this

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hysterectomy is because my
uterus is sitting on top of the,

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my bladder and causing me a lot
of issues.

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Right when I was in the program,
I started going to the doctor

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because, you know, while I'm in
active addiction and I'm high

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all the time, I don't realize
this is going on, you know, So

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once I get in the program and
I'm clean, I'm like, Oh my God,

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you know, I'm all this, these
issues are happening.

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And so I started going to the
doctor.

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Well, one of the staff members
went with me to my doctor's

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visits and sat in the room with
me unless they said they had to

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do something private then they
would leave.

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But other than that they still
came with me and started talking

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to my doctor about the issues
and blah blah blah.

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Long story short, she we tried
everything.

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So she did try a former birth
control that basically whatever

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ingredients was in it was
supposed to help something with

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bladder issues.
I can't get all into it.

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I it's, it's a lot.
So, so this procedure was done

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where they gave me this birth
control and I get back to the

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program and later that day and
then the main person that runs

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it asked me what happened and
told her.

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And she's like, just live it.
You're not allowed to be on

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birth control.
And you know, we have all these

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restrictions or like a
punishment thing like anytime

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you break rules.
Well this gave me gave me like 7

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days I think.
And also she scheduled an

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appointment for me to go to the
health department the following

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week and have it taken out.
What?

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What?
Yeah, but but it sounded like

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you needed it Medically, yes.
That's what I said.

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I was like, this is not for the
purpose of me not getting

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pregnant.
It's for to help my bladder

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issues that you already know
about that I'm going to the

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doctor for.
I don't care.

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You're not allowed to have birth
control.

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Where here?
Was it Catholic?

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Ran.
No, no, this government.

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Was just that.
What stage?

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Dude what you just described to
me was like cult behavior.

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Yeah, Yeah.
Well, that is just one of many,

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many, many stories I have.
I had a lot of issues with the

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00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:11,840
people that ran this program.
I basically stuck with it

228
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,600
because I was more concerned
about getting clean and I felt

229
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,560
like it's what I what I needed
and whatever.

230
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:23,040
And but like, it was always talk
of lawsuits and stuff like that.

231
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,720
Like the way that they ran, it
was just so, Oh my goodness, I'm

232
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,280
sorry, you and it There's also
another place in the same area

233
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,680
that it's kind of ran the same
way.

234
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:37,120
And it just makes me curious,
like, how many places are ran

235
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,920
that way because I always like
in the back of my mind for this

236
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,360
woman, just like recovery
centers deserve so much better

237
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,160
than what you do here.
Because it was it was loud.

238
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,840
There is good and bad to any
community.

239
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,040
And, you know, sometimes over
there in TikTok, you could tell,

240
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,960
like, I didn't know anything
about body brokering until I got

241
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,080
on TikTok or patient brokering,
you know, and sometimes you

242
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,640
could tell with certain creators
that they are in that field.

243
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,840
You know, yeah, they might have
beat their addictions, but now

244
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,160
they're out hunting for people
that are in active addiction,

245
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,480
you know, and recovery is not
supposed to be a revolving door.

246
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,960
Yeah, right, right.
Exactly.

247
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,960
Wow, what a story.
Cassie, Thank.

248
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,880
You I'm sharing.
That with us.

249
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,040
I got off of topic there for a
second, but I just, we were

250
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,880
talking about not being able to
take things in the program.

251
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,960
Yeah, there was.
The program I was in was super

252
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,680
strict to you.
I mean, of course there's

253
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:44,280
different levels and stuff.
So you were in recovery for a

254
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,240
number of years, but now you're
in recovery with kratom?

255
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,840
Oh yeah, and it's OK.
So, yeah, so I was January 27th

256
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,560
of this year is 8 years for me
and I'm going to keep that date

257
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,360
because.
Because I interviewed her from

258
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,000
the podcast, she had said like
next year.

259
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,560
So now she's saying.
This always keep your dates

260
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,520
always.
Keep.

261
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,920
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I struggled with

262
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:18,280
saying I was because I, I
relapsed in September last year

263
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:23,360
and I just binge doing stuff for
two weekends in a row and I

264
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,040
haven't done anything like that
since.

265
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,720
And I was searching for more
because I had a rough year.

266
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,040
I was, I got depressed.
I just went through a lot of

267
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,800
stuff and I was looking for, you
know, I was drinking a lot.

268
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,960
I started smoking weed.
I was just doing things in

269
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,080
excess and I started looking for
more.

270
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,240
And I knew like I've, I knew I
started looking for things that

271
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,160
were just going to lead me in
the wrong direction.

272
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,600
So thank God I came across
kratom.

273
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,240
So in your mind you probably
rationalize that I will start

274
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,120
with the light stuff first.
Oh, yeah, I was in there trying

275
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,520
to think what I could do that
would be OK, You know, just that

276
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,560
same thinking.
I'm like, oh, shit, I'm not

277
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,440
going back there, not doing it.
And thank God, thank God.

278
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,640
I ran across a video of kratom
and it was positive and it got

279
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,000
me researching it and I looked
past what I had heard about it.

280
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,800
I mean, of course that was in my
mind.

281
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,280
That's why I started researching
it.

282
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,200
But after all the research I did
and hearing other people's

283
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,200
stories and everything and
meeting people in the community

284
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,880
and hearing real life stories,
you know, like I finally decided

285
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,800
to give a try and I'm so glad I
did.

286
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,480
I wouldn't be where I'm at right
now.

287
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,520
I'm.
So glad to write it too.

288
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,360
Yeah, it's you have such a
compelling story.

289
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,760
Now when I discovered kratom
back in 2019, I'm doing all this

290
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,280
research.
I came across a Facebook group

291
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,840
that I was trying to find like
who's talking about kratom where

292
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,480
I can actually talk to people in
the community and do your first

293
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,200
hand experience.
You know, it's one thing

294
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,360
watching the documentary Leap of
Faith that started my journey.

295
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,960
Thank God for that documentary,
but I still wanted more

296
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,760
information.
So I find a Facebook group

297
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:12,359
talking about kratom.
It was geared specifically for

298
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,640
people in recovery.
And, you know, I haven't been in

299
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,800
that world.
So I was thinking, well, I

300
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,720
couldn't really find very many
others.

301
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,760
And this one was super active at
the time.

302
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,240
And I thought, well, let me just
go through the post and see what

303
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,560
I can learn from this group.
I don't have to actively

304
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,680
participate in post.
So it was a little weird for me

305
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,880
at first because you had people
in there talking about, Hey, I'm

306
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,400
trying to start heroin, trying
to stop heroin.

307
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,000
And I'm like, oh, wow, I, you
know, haven't known anybody

308
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,360
doing that.
So I'm like, and I was like, but

309
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,000
they're talking about kratom.
So I know I can get some good

310
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,880
takeaways.
So I, I just remember I was

311
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,680
reading like every post.
It was so active is Mike Gill's

312
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,480
Facebook group.
So back in 2019, super active.

313
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,240
I'm reading stop taking
screenshots because I'm ready to

314
00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,760
start.
Like I'm ready.

315
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,560
I was tapering down my pain
meds.

316
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,080
I'm ready to make that
transition, but I still felt

317
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,480
like, is this a community that I
can resonate with?

318
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,680
Because not all the people
there, but the majority were

319
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,960
there for kratom and recovery.
There were a few chronic pain

320
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,640
people, but I finally, just like
I was learning a lot.

321
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,640
I learned a ton from that group.
And then I, I got brave and

322
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,480
started doing some posts and I
was telling people about my, you

323
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,360
know, coming from chronic pain,
how nervous I was that I'm

324
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,200
learning a lot.
And I would ask some questions

325
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,480
and everybody there was so
welcoming to me, like with open

326
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,400
arms, like helping me and, and
sharing information and like

327
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,680
that all those posts in there
were just invaluable to help me

328
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,200
feel comfortable enough to
start.

329
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,920
Because, you know, if you're not
hearing people's stories, you

330
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,120
know, it could be scary in the
beginning because you don't know

331
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,160
what to expect.
But to hear people, so many

332
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,280
people talking about how great
of an experience it was.

333
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,120
So many people were saying that
going from opioids to kratom,

334
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:04,040
very few had withdrawal issues.
Some people said none.

335
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,680
Some people said mild.
Very few people said they had

336
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,920
anything more than mild.
Because here I was coming from 9

337
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,720
years of daily opioids for my
chronic pain to switching to

338
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,880
kratom.
And that was my biggest concern

339
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,280
at the time because I was busy
taking care of my mom.

340
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,760
I'm like, Oh my God, you know,
is this going to work?

341
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,160
And am I going to be suffering
not just with pain, but with

342
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,320
with withdrawals as well?
But I will never forget that

343
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,240
group.
It was so important to me at the

344
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,800
time and it's still around and I
think it's just great that

345
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,600
people get together in groups,
whether it's Facebook or other

346
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,360
places to share, you know, their
personal experience and help

347
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,040
other people.
So what I'm curious with both of

348
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,360
y'all is were there resources
like that that helped you when

349
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,960
it came to using kratom for
recovery?

350
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,280
Did y'all come across some
Facebook groups or just

351
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,200
communities where people were
talking about kratom for

352
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,560
recovery?
When I found Kratom in June of

353
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:02,800
2019, I'd only been, I was on
Facebook since 2018.

354
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,200
So I was a newbie newbie.
I didn't even know communities

355
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,720
existed or anything like that,
like groups.

356
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,880
But my daughters, one of my kids
had said, mom, there might be a

357
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,480
Facebook group about kratom.
So that's when I went searching

358
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,560
and I saw all these different
support groups and I joined a

359
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,880
whole bunch of them.
And then I was like you, I did

360
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,040
not want to speak out.
I didn't want to comment.

361
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,520
I stayed in the background and
researched and read everything.

362
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,880
And then I started posting up,
you know?

363
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,400
And then I started my own
advocacy group with a couple

364
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,600
other admins.
Shout out to Mike Dirks and

365
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,800
Laura.
They haven't been active for a

366
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,280
while because they got life
stuff going on.

367
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,120
But I started my own advocacy
group in August of 2019 because

368
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,160
I was like, why?
Where, what, how come in my 11

369
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,600
years of active addiction, how
come I didn't know kratom was

370
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,440
even an option, you know, not
only for pain relief, but to

371
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,280
help people find recovery, You
know, So I wanted to try to

372
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:08,160
like, be that, you know, using
the way I felt to bring it from

373
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,040
the rooftop and try to get other
people involved as well.

374
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,160
That's the how my journey
happened.

375
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,080
Yeah.
What about you, Cassie?

376
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,360
Did you come across some helpful
resources, support group things

377
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:22,920
online that helped you with?
I did.

378
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,000
Recovery for with your kratom.
Yeah, I did.

379
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,720
So as far as the social media
goes, I think I know like the

380
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,680
first time I tried to, to look,
you know, I tried to sell kratom

381
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,840
like, you know, normal and I
couldn't find anything.

382
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,840
And I was like, darn, how am I
supposed to find any groups or

383
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,440
anything?
Because I do that all the time.

384
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,240
You know, whenever I'm wanting
to learn about something, I

385
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,000
always join a group about it
anyway.

386
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,880
Couldn't find anything.
Sorry, I'm so sorry you're going

387
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,160
in during that aftermath of
Facebook removing kratom from

388
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,080
the search bar.
It only recently happened.

389
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,400
It did.
It was not like 3.

390
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,200
Years.
They make it hard, but it's not

391
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:07,840
really.
I mean, Facebook is bad with

392
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,200
this, but others, you know, on
TikTok, you can't spell kratom

393
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,320
the normal way.
That's why we have to spell it

394
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,440
differently.
They make it so you can't

395
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,920
search.
If you go Google kratom most

396
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,640
times these days, you do that
and it wants to direct you to a

397
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,600
recovery center or tell you, do
you need help with drugs?

398
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,760
You know, right?
It's mind boggling to me how

399
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,560
much the government has stepped
in to try to keep us from

400
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,120
learning about this plant.
It's just wrong, right?

401
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,800
And just to think how many other
people out there right now that

402
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,240
are suffering thinking they can
go to Facebook and type in

403
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,640
kratom and and try to find
recovery or work groups like we

404
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,960
did and.
If they if they type it in and

405
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,760
they don't find anything and
they just give up.

406
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,040
Luckily I had found somebody
spelled Kratom with the 8IN

407
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,160
place of the letter A, so that's
how I ended up being able to

408
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,920
search for it.
I figured that out.

409
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,720
So I found some things through
that.

410
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,000
Of course, you know, I do feel
like I feel like any of us could

411
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,720
have more to reach out to if we
could spell it correctly.

412
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,840
Because now, you know, there's
no telling, you know what I

413
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,880
mean?
Like how many different ones

414
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,800
there is that we could have
access to that we can't because

415
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,240
of the spelling?
Yeah, we're just not findable.

416
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,680
We're not findable.
We're not searching.

417
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,080
Well, they do everything in
their power to make it so that

418
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,400
our voices are suppressed, and
it's just sad.

419
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,440
Now.
Also, when I interviewed you for

420
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,080
the podcast with your episode,
you had mentioned that you came

421
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,840
across the Crane Stories podcast
on Spotify.

422
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:46,800
So.
I was getting there.

423
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,520
Wait, where did that play into
this?

424
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,840
So that's another thing that I
really like to do when I get

425
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,840
interested in something or want
to learn about it is I love

426
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,120
listening to podcasts and in my
car when I drive and I'm always

427
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,800
driving.
So I can pretty much binge

428
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,080
listen to podcast all the time.
And of course, if I love it

429
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:11,120
started listening to yours and
that's how I found all of you.

430
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,920
I started listening to yours and
binge listen to it and I fell in

431
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,120
love with it.
I loved hearing everyone's

432
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,280
stories.
I learned so much from it.

433
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,960
It was great.
And then I found you on one of

434
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,160
the social media platforms and
it's just growing from there and

435
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,280
I've gotten to know a bunch of
you and it's amazing community.

436
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,480
But yes.
I guarantee you, Cassie, that

437
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,000
the story you're just now saying
it will happen to you.

438
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,120
Somebody will accidentally see
one of your Tik Toks or

439
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:47,920
accidentally see one of your
Youtubes.

440
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,640
It will happen, yeah.
Better life will change people.

441
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,880
Something you posted.
Yeah, yeah.

442
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,520
Like I've said before, you know,
I've never, I've always wanted

443
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,920
to do something to help others
in recovery since I've gone

444
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,040
through this and a lot of people
will go get I think it's called

445
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,760
AC stack or something like that
and be like a addiction

446
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,040
counselor or whatever like that.
But I just never been yeah, I

447
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,280
never been interested in that.
But ever since I found it, found

448
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:25,240
kratom and found you all and
seen y'all advocate and do what

449
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,480
you do on social media, that was
like I knew it right then.

450
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,360
Like this is my passion.
This is how I want to help and

451
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,840
this is how I want to do it.
I'm hoping one day I'll be good

452
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,640
at it.
But, you know, it is what it is.

453
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,080
I want to get the message out.
I want to get the education out.

454
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,800
I have wanted to do so much more
than what I've done so far.

455
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:49,960
You know, my time just doesn't
allow.

456
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,200
But I I've got so many plans and
yeah.

457
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,120
You sound like me, you sound
like me because when I discover

458
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,520
kratom and it's changed my life,
I'm like, Oh my gosh, what can I

459
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,760
do?
I want to do a podcast.

460
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,760
I want to do a life this and
that.

461
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,360
But at the time I was taking
care of my mom and I, I knew I

462
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,960
had to wait till that chapter of
my life was over, but I was

463
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,200
like, Oh my gosh, I want to do
this, I want to do that.

464
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,360
I like all these things.
I just didn't have the time or

465
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,080
the bandwidth, the mental
capacity to do it all at the

466
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,120
time.
But you know, things will fall

467
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,560
out of place and you're already
doing a lot.

468
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,800
Your YouTube videos, your TikTok
videos, you're doing a great job

469
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,200
of advocating Cassie, being that
you want to help people in the

470
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,200
recovery community learn more
about kratom.

471
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,760
When I interviewed you for the
podcast or your solo episode

472
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,320
with me, you know, you talked
very passionately about that.

473
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,880
So how would you help in the
stigma regarding kratom as a

474
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,560
harm reduction tool in recovery?
Good question.

475
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,080
I mean, you're doing the videos,
you're, you're putting that

476
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,040
information out there, which I
think is a big part of it.

477
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,440
Yeah, like I said, I just want
to put out the correct

478
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,320
information.
If I don't know the information,

479
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,760
you know, guide them in the
right direction to find it.

480
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,360
The biggest thing is helping
people who are new to it.

481
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,360
I mean, obviously those are
mostly who want to learn about

482
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:15,200
it, but just get the correct
information out there.

483
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,120
Trying to keep it safe for all
the people that I can keep it

484
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:23,200
safe for, like just trying to
educate them on how to start out

485
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,400
rather than just going and
buying the wrong crap.

486
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,600
Yeah.
And getting even more in

487
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,920
addiction, not helping it just.
I'm glad that didn't happen to

488
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,160
you because yeah, because you
don't do it.

489
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,520
Me too.
I mean, it did almost, yeah.

490
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,960
Luckily, yeah, I had that at
started accidentally with that

491
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,960
extract enhanced and you know,
luckily it wasn't anything

492
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,040
crazy.
It was powder and it was just a

493
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,760
little bit more potent than
than, but still, you know what I

494
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,280
mean?
I could.

495
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,600
Have.
Oh yeah.

496
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,120
I could have bought anything and
I remember now too, when I was

497
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:05,960
purchasing my first kratom at
the smoke shop, they were trying

498
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,160
to push them shots on me and at
that time I had no clue, no

499
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,120
idea, but I knew.
I don't know how I knew, but

500
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,640
something told me I was just
like, no, I'm not ready for that

501
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,280
yet.
I just felt like it was the way

502
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,960
that I perceived it when I was
in there was that it was the

503
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,600
creme de la creme of the kratom.
And I was just like, OK, I want

504
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,320
to start off, you know, slow.
And I just thought it was like,

505
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,360
but it's not just not.
Well, you know, these smoke

506
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:40,200
shops, they make so much money
with those extracts and now

507
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,200
these 70 H products.
And so many times people as

508
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,200
consumers are not educated on
all this and don't even really

509
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,080
understand.
I know when you told your story

510
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,400
to me, you, you're like, you
know, they just told you, hey,

511
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,000
buy this and you didn't even
realize it was extract powder.

512
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,520
But how were you to know?
Because you were learning.

513
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,280
And they didn't even know
anything about it.

514
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,440
They had no clue what they were
even saying.

515
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,040
They had no idea what they were
selling.

516
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,400
And most of the smoke shops, the
employees in there do not know

517
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,360
nothing about it.
That's scary.

518
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,320
It is scary, especially when
you've got those 708 products

519
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,760
out there that.
You know, at least like when you

520
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,480
walk out here in Colorado, you
know, we can just walk into a

521
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,600
weed dispensary and at least the
bud tenders behind the counters

522
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,560
know where someone should start.
And it's never with the

523
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,440
abstracts that have like 98%
THC.

524
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,320
You know, you always want to
start off with the flower,

525
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,320
right?
You know, at least the bud

526
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,240
tenders are educated.
I don't know if there's like a

527
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,080
safe, like a safety type thing
that they have meeting where

528
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,480
they're like, hey, you got this
is how you got to do it.

529
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,800
When the new newbie comes in,
maybe we could pave the way to

530
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,720
have freaking smoke shops do
this.

531
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,160
Yeah, you know what I've been
trying to think so much about

532
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,280
what to to do with the smoke
shop.

533
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,040
Like I'm trying to get ideas
just to.

534
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,520
I just thought, honestly feel
like if we walk in there with a

535
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,240
how to pamphlet, it's just going
to go in the trash.

536
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,040
You know?
They want their money.

537
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,040
Yeah.
Tons of money.

538
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,600
I'm just wondering if there's
just some way to help educate

539
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,400
where they're more receptive,
you know, to, to just get some

540
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,080
education because it benefits
them.

541
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,200
You know, I, I think so Misty,
my question for you is in what

542
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,280
ways do you think it kind of
going along these lines?

543
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,320
In what ways do you think the
recovery community could benefit

544
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,120
from more education about
kratom?

545
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,360
They're just hearing the hearsay
most times and spew and all

546
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,400
that.
We see it every day on TikTok

547
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,880
and other social media.
But do you think like, finding

548
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,480
ways to get in with some
recovery centers that are open

549
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,160
to this to help like, like we
did, like we live streamed with

550
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,240
the kratom gals that time where
John Schoenholzer spoke at a

551
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,480
recovery center and like, that
doesn't happen very often.

552
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,120
We don't see that very often,
but they were very receptive to

553
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,360
have them come in.
They were receptive for to have

554
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,200
John Schinholzer come in, but
they were also shunned from the

555
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,760
abstinence based recovery center
or recovery space.

556
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,160
You know, like how dare John to
come in there and talk about

557
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,280
alternative pathway to recovery
with a, you know, non FDA

558
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,440
approved.
Well, you know, probably a lot

559
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,080
of that too is about money as
well, because, you know.

560
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,640
My advice would be to allow the
Johnson holders to come in.

561
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,680
And speak like I said, I want to
be a part of that in any way I

562
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,760
could.
Like I'm just, I'm constantly

563
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,760
like trying to think of ways to
do all these things.

564
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,680
I think you should get with him
and, and, you know, brainstorm

565
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,480
some ideas and, and see, and I'm
sure y'all could like start a

566
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,640
whole army of people just like
the two of y'all that have used

567
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:01,960
kratom in your recovery efforts
and help put gasoline on that to

568
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,160
help get that message further
out.

569
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,080
I know, I know it's hard in the
recovery community.

570
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,280
They're not very accepting of
kratom, but something's got to

571
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,000
change and y'all have stories
that are so compelling.

572
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,880
That's why I want to have you on
the podcast to talk about this.

573
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,520
I think this just makes for a
great discussion.

574
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,320
Who knows, maybe just some
people in the recovery space,

575
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,080
they just need to hear this
episode and just hear what

576
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,720
you'll have to say.
At least be open minded to that,

577
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,680
that maybe that's an end.
You know, these Part 1 and Part

578
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,360
2 of this podcast episode
talking about kratom in

579
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,880
addiction and recovery.
That maybe if instead of like,

580
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,640
hey, have us come in and talk.
It's listen to this podcast

581
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,160
episode.
We got a couple of episodes and

582
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,680
plus John Shinholder's been on
the podcast with his episode

583
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,440
with me.
His story's so compelling.

584
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,680
Y'all of each have been on on
your own with me.

585
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720
But then having this like more
of a round table discussion.

586
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,480
Maybe this is an easier way to
try to get it in with some of

587
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:03,200
these places It's. 2025 you
know, allow alternative pathways

588
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,720
to recovery thrive.
Yeah, I mean, because obviously

589
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,640
it's still a huge problem.
Yeah, and people can't recover,

590
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,320
you know, and I know that's a
harm reduction, like Narcan

591
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,240
saying that dead people can't
recover, but it's so damn true,

592
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,120
you know, stop shaming people if
they don't recover the way that

593
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,280
you want them to recover.
Those 20 plus people that we

594
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,080
lost from the program, they
didn't, you know, I mean, I saw

595
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,240
so many people go in and leave
and go in and leave.

596
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,400
It's just like, you know, a
revolving door.

597
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:48,040
But like people who weren't
ready to make that step.

598
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,680
They would walk down the road
and then, you know, think that

599
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,760
they could go do the same dose
that they were doing before they

600
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,440
went in there or it's laced with
fentanyl or whatever the case is

601
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,880
and done just like that after
one shot or whatever and it's

602
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,880
gone.
They didn't have a chance, you

603
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,920
know what I mean?
I know people that went in 2-3

604
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,040
times and then finally got it.
I went once.

605
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,280
I know people who've been sick
7-8 times.

606
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,560
You know, it's just.
Like you know when I when I

607
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,080
feel.
Good, but it's not the answer.

608
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,719
When I found Kratom, I was not
looking for recovery.

609
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,280
Recovery wasn't even in in my
path at all.

610
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,199
I was like, you know what?
I just need something to help

611
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,239
with my withdrawals, you know,
because I was still going to

612
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,440
find another pain management
doctor or I was going to do that

613
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,840
heroin.
Like I always say, I was just

614
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,639
inches away from doing heroin
because I rationalized with

615
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:46,360
myself that doing cocaine first
would be the smarter move.

616
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:52,120
And so when I found kratom, I
accidentally found my recovery.

617
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,520
And then here I am trying to
preach about it on social media

618
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:01,360
and I got so much backlash from
the AANA community, from some

619
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,400
people in the Mac community, but
I still will not bend over and

620
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,360
take it up the ass with no
Vaseline.

621
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,080
I'm going to get my message out
there.

622
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,440
I'm going to continue striving
and surviving and thriving in

623
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,680
life and show it on social
media.

624
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,920
If there's people out there like
you who want a white knuckle

625
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,840
recovery, there's people out
here like me that are recovered

626
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,080
because of a plant, right?
Right.

627
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,560
Yeah.
Societies, you know, the boxes

628
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,240
that people want other people to
fit in.

629
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,400
I don't even know what that
would be called.

630
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,240
But yeah, I just don't even.
Yeah, you cannot.

631
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,200
It is so important to get your
story out because you could say

632
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:50,960
one thing like a certain
situation or one benefit or

633
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,960
anything like that and somebody
hears that they went through the

634
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,480
same thing or they're looking
for the same answer.

635
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,120
Like that's why it's important,
you know, people are trying to

636
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,320
find solutions, people are
trying to find help, people are

637
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,440
trying to find things that are
not man made and synthetic all

638
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,960
the damn time.
It's super important to Share

639
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,680
your story because there's
somebody out there.

640
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,920
You're not alone.
There's somebody out there who's

641
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,200
gone through the same thing or
something similar.

642
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,000
So I want to ask y'all each to
share.

643
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,800
What lessons have you learned
that you'd like to share with

644
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,000
others who might be struggling
with addiction?

645
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,840
Lessons as in using kratom as
your pathway to recovery.

646
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,680
Well, I yeah, I think just for
anybody listening in right now

647
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,840
and maybe they're struggling
with addiction, they're hearing

648
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,440
about kratom for the first time,
or maybe they've heard it a few

649
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,560
times but don't really know much
about it.

650
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,720
You know you want recovery,
you're just afraid to take that

651
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,960
step.
It's the fear of the unknown.

652
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:59,360
So my suggestion to you would be
to put that stuff down, pick up

653
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,680
lab tested whole leaf powder
kratom and begin your journey

654
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,080
and you will be where we are
today.

655
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,320
Don't give up.
Keep your journal.

656
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,240
What's your thought, Cassie?
Same exact thing.

657
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,960
I will say this though, when
you're in active addiction,

658
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,800
you're looking for anything and
everything to feel better.

659
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,920
Why not try a natural plant to
help with all of those things

660
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,040
coming off of that?
And it's just, I mean, it's

661
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,040
recovery and a leaf.
Because when you're in like I

662
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,840
was in active addiction for 11
years straight, and once you've

663
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,120
been in addiction for so long,
you're no longer getting high.

664
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,480
You're only taking your DLC to
get well, to stave off of the

665
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,080
withdrawals because you know
they're coming.

666
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,200
And that's why I say when I
found kratom, I wasn't looking

667
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,800
for recovery.
I was just looking for something

668
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,200
to help with withdrawals.
It accidentally pressed pause in

669
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,000
my brain from craving my sad
substances so that I could take

670
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,240
a step back and work on my wives
of addiction and.

671
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,800
Then what if somebody's
listening and but they're still

672
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,240
feeling hesitant?
But what would you say?

673
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:13,280
It's only you and yourself back.
Yeah.

674
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,520
And I would say though, if
you're hesitant, just follow all

675
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,200
of us and listen to everything.
Watch everything.

676
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,800
Get all the education.
Madeline has the excellent

677
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,520
classroom on.
Create a real talk.

678
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,680
Larry Freedom, real talk.
I am so sorry.

679
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,080
There's like freedom gals.
It's like so much to remember.

680
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,200
I know I sometimes have a hard
time trying to like.

681
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,800
But yeah, she has a lot of good
information.

682
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:47,480
Get educated from people like us
who are responsible consumers

683
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,880
and we only use whole leaf
powder lab tested, GMP qualified

684
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:57,120
and that advocate for it because
we're sharing our story.

685
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,200
We have the addiction and
recovery experience and also the

686
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,240
kratom experience and listen to
our stories.

687
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,520
Just learn and give it a chance.
Don't give up.

688
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,880
If you're high on your DLC right
now and you're listening to this

689
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,720
podcast, I guarantee you, you're
going to think we're full of

690
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,240
shit.
It happened to me, you know,

691
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:24,520
because I saw that 2018
Hamilton's Pharmacopia episode,

692
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,440
you know, about kratom.
But I was high on my Percocets

693
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,360
at the time when I was watching
it, and I kept screaming at my

694
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,560
TV like, you are so full of
shit.

695
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,440
Ain't no damn way that leaf is
doing that for you.

696
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:42,800
Whatever, you know?
And then 2019, you know, June of

697
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,680
2019 was when I was flipping
through Netflix and watch that

698
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,840
documentary A Leap of Faith.
So universe will throw signs at

699
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,840
you even while you're in active
addiction, but you're choosing

700
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,280
to ignore those little hints.
So just know we're not full of

701
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,400
shit.
And I mean, you have to when

702
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,080
you're ready.
I mean it.

703
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,760
I know it sounds crazy all, all
the time to stay in miracle

704
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,280
plant, miracle plant.
But I have never ever.

705
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,320
Even thought that there was
something that would help people

706
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,400
the way that it does as far as
withdrawals and recovery and

707
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:25,040
mental health and pain and like
it literally is like you say

708
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,320
Madeleine, a pharmacy just it
does it all.

709
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,000
It's not the cure all for
everything and it's not for

710
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,440
everyone, but it's great.
It's.

711
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,240
The.
Swiss It's saved our life.

712
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,120
Yes, yes.
It's an amazing plant and it's

713
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,280
changed so many lives.
It's saved a lot of lives.

714
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,560
If anybody's listening and and
they want to hear more stories

715
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,800
about kratom for addiction and
recovery, just go to

716
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,000
kramestoriespodcast.com.
When you're actually on the

717
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,840
website.
What's really cool is you can go

718
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,760
in the navigation, go to where
it says episodes, and when you

719
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,000
click on it, there's a pull down
menu and I have them all

720
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,680
categorized.
All the episodes are categorized

721
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,120
in there.
And if you want to specifically

722
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,040
find the ones about addiction,
you can go there and just go

723
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,600
listen to those.
And I guarantee you for anybody

724
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,160
listening that is looking for an
alternative, hearing those

725
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,640
stories and you know, Misty's
been on the podcast twice with

726
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,240
me interviewing her.
Cassie's been on the podcast.

727
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:30,160
We've had so many amazing people
share their kratom journey with

728
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,360
me and how they use kratom in
their recovery.

729
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,480
So I definitely urge people to
take a listen.

730
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,080
Y'all, this has been so great.
I really appreciate y'all doing

731
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,360
this as two parts with me
because when we did Part 1,

732
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,600
there was just still so much
more I wanted to discuss with

733
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,600
y'all.
So thank you for for spending

734
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,360
time and, and doing this Part 2.
I'll be sure to link in the show

735
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,160
notes all the individual
episodes.

736
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,360
So so you know, twice when I've
had Misty on when I've had you

737
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,200
on Cassie.
Plus the first part of this,

738
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,320
John Shinholzer, like all the
amazing stories so others can go

739
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,720
and a leap of faith because
that's what started it for so

740
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:08,840
many of us, is this documentary
that we can watch for free on

741
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,560
YouTube.
Yeah, that was one of my

742
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,440
research things too.
When I, you know, while I joined

743
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,480
all the groups and got your
podcast and I mean, just

744
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,920
everything I could do, I had
done that and then be on the

745
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,680
lookout for the.
Green miracle documentary.

746
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:28,680
That right, right.
Directed and produced by Richard

747
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,240
and Tim Chacol.
Yeah, that's going to be.

748
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,520
Really excited about that.
But yeah, I watched the leaf, a

749
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,160
leaf of Faith during my, you
know, research and everything.

750
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,320
It was great.
A great thing to watch to learn

751
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,680
about it.
So that's another thing.

752
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,880
There's so many resources and we
have so many.

753
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,720
And yeah, if you need anything,
we got some information.

754
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,240
We gotcha.
Anybody listening you need

755
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:56,400
information, we gotcha.
Well, thank you all both so

756
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:57,640
much.
This has been great.

757
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,960
You're very welcome, this has
been fun.

758
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,360
Thank you for listening.
You can get more information at

759
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,280
kratomstoriespodcast.com,
including show notes from this

760
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:10,840
episode.