Ep 61: Tresa Duckworth's Kratom Transformation: Hope for Chronic Pain Sufferers

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I'm standing up straighter, I'm
smiling more.

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My husband's noticed an improved
mood.

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I've noticed an improved mood.
I'm able to walk further and

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it's not magic.
It's not a magic potion.

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I still have back pain.
It's nothing like it was, and I

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can do more things for longer
periods of time than I could

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before.
Welcome to Kratom Stories, a

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weekly podcast where we share
stories of how this amazing

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plant has changed our lives.
I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.

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Each week I'll bring you a new
episode featuring interviews

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with experts, advocates, and
everyday people who've

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experienced the benefits of
kratom first hand.

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Join me as we dive deeper into
the world of this botanical

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wonder and discover the amazing
stories behind this incredible

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plant.
The Kratom Stories Podcast is

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presented solely for educational
purposes.

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Neither the podcast nor its host
promote or endorse the use of

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kratom, a substance not yet
regulated or approved by the

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FDA.
The views and opinions expressed

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by guests are theirs alone and
do not necessarily reflect those

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of the host or the podcast.
The content is not intended as a

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substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or

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treatment.
Always seek the advice of your

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physician or other qualified
healthcare provider with any

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questions regarding the use of
kratom.

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I'm here with Teresa, a lady
that is very new to kratom and

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has quite the story to share.
Teresa, I'm so glad that you're

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sitting down with me.
I want to get started with

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having you tell us a little bit
about yourself and life before

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kratom.
Hi Marilyn.

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Thank you for having me.
Well, like yourself, I was a

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pain patient and how I became a
pain patient was being a

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correctional officer with the
state of California.

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I did that for about 14 years
and had a couple injuries during

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that time.
Before that I was very active

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person, hiking, hiking very
outdoors, very active, pretty

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fit for the job.
And about nine years into the

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job, I had a back injury.
And then we also, these officers

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wear a very heavy belt that sits
around our waist on our hips

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full of equipment and that
weighs about 15 to 20 lbs.

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So that went on to cause a
little bit more damage.

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I worked this way for many
years, going to the doctor,

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trying physical therapy, anti
inflammatories, ablations,

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injections, all the things they
do, and eventually ended up on

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opioid medication.
I was also medically retired due

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to the severity of my back
injury and disc disease, so very

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was unable to do the things I'd
love to do for years, taking

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medication which slowed me down.
I was gradual weight gain over

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the years and really took away a
lot of physical things that I

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enjoy doing.
Luckily, I took that time to go

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back to school and get my
bachelor's and master's degree,

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so I didn't kind of go into that
depression that some people get

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for having that part of their
lives taken from them.

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So I made use of my downtime.
I was retired at 49 years old.

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I was too young to stop doing
anything.

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So I went back to school, years
of taking pain medication, I

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definitely developed a physical
dependency.

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I didn't feel that I had an
addiction, so to speak, more

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than as much as a physical
dependency.

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And I did take them as
prescribed.

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But as new and most pain
patients know, recently in the

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last few years, they've really
decided to crack down on

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prescribing pain medication.
So you start getting prescribed

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less and your body has to adjust
and you do less physically and

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it's a big adjustment.
So I started researching

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creative.
I actually found you on TikTok.

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You would have my first
introduction to it.

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And I thought, this lady's
telling me that this grant, this

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natural legal plant helps her
pain medication.

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And you, you actually said what
was wrong with your back and

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your neck?
And it was many of the things

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that were wrong with me.
And we're, I think we're similar

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age demographics.
And I thought, is this lady

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selling something?
How could a natural thing work?

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So I researched her.
I watched the documentary, I

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spoke to Jordan of New Hope
Botanicals.

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I just talked to different
people and read different things

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about Preda, and after losing
one of my pain medications to

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another manufacturer back order,
I said this is it.

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I'm tired of playing games with
the doctors, the pharmacies

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making me feel sick every time
they run out of my medication

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that they prescribe me.
I'm going to try Preda.

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So I really took the lead from
you.

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I placed an order for a couple
of different strains and colors,

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couple of different vendors and
I had it all on him and he said

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no more opioids in the garbage
they go.

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Went to bed that night, woke up
starting to feel the effects of

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withdrawal, not having the
medication in my system and I

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said OK.
This morning is kratom day and

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it's going to be this from now
on.

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And for the 1st week or two I
found I was doing as you

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suggested.
Less is more.

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Started with the green, started
with just a flat teaspoon.

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I was very afraid to take too
much or feel weird.

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And I for the first week I was
pretty much managing withdrawal

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symptoms more than pain.
And I was getting frustrated.

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And I did reach out to you.
You helped many times do this.

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And I said I'm not getting pain
relief.

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I'm only managing.
I don't feel sick, but I'm not,

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I'm not getting the pain relief.
I'm very frustrated.

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And he said keep going, stick
with it.

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And Jordan, actually I reached
out to him about it too, and he

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said I don't think you're taking
a nap.

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Those of us that are opioid
tolerant I think need to start

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with a little more kratom and
that's just my personal belief.

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Don't take the least medical
advice.

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People that are opioid tolerant
need to start with more kratom

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than people that are opioid.
My and I upped the dose a little

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about a a rounded teaspoon
instead of a flat teaspoon and

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it started helping with my pain.
I fiddled around, I ordered a

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measuring weighted a weight
spoon like a scale spoon so I

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could see exactly how many grams
I was taking.

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I kept the journal like you
suggested every time I took it,

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how I felt on my pain scale,
what color I took, and on the

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pain pills.
I don't think I ever got below

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A7.
A really good rested day is 6

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but I still hurt.
I think people don't realize

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your pain medication isn't
working as well as you think it

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is.
Opioids have a an excellent

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ability to make you not care
about your pain as much more

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than they have the ability to
eliminate pain.

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So with the kratom and now that
I have my dose down, I'm taking

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about 5 to 6 grams of green four
or five times a day.

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If I have a really bad pain day,
I will replace one of those

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doses with red.
I found if I'm in a lot of pain

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and really struggling, I'll take
a dose of red midday and it

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really helps.
My pain gets down to like a

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three or four now.
I never saw that on pain pills

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and at one point I was taking 90
MMM ES of opioids a day.

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This was prescribed to me by my
doctor and I was still at a six

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or seven almost every day.
So I can totally relate to those

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tricep because I when I was in
pain management, my MME, the

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more morphine milligram
equivalent was even higher than

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yours at 90.
I know that they try to keep

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patients at 90 or less.
I was closer to 200.

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So I was taking really high
doses of Oxycontin, Percocets,

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hydrocodones for my pain.
And just like you, my pain level

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would be a six or A7.
On a bad day, it'd be 8 or 9.

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So I can totally relate to what
you were saying in pain

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management.
And then when I discovered

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kratom and found the right dose
and the right color, my pain

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level goes to a zero.
And it's just so hard to believe

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that a plant can do that.
Like have you just been amazed

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that your pain level?
Is really I Really.

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And I adore you so please don't
take offense to this.

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I really thought you were a
snake oil salesman the first

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time I heard you because I
thought there's no possible way

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this woman is being truthful or
she doesn't know what pain is

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like.
But getting to know you, I feel

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like it was destined that I met
you and you were able to help

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me.
And I'm hoping I can help

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someone else by doing this
interview with you.

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I mean, it is a lot of opioids
to take and like we're talking,

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they don't really work that well
on your pain.

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They just make your brain happy
because they're feeding those

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opioid receptors that go, I
don't really care that I hurt so

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bad.
And it's, it's very, a very much

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a false sense of Wellness.
It's I really, I never believed

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I take this powder.
I don't feel drugged.

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I don't feel high.
I don't feel jittery, which was

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some of the main things I was
afraid of starting this.

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I thought, I don't like the
effects of marijuana.

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Some people, it works great for
me.

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I don't like it.
I don't like drinking alcohol.

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I don't like the way that makes
me feel.

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So I was really leery that this
was going to make me feel loopy

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or worse, anxious and jittery.
It doesn't do any of that.

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I was worried that I couldn't
drink my coffee every morning

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with it.
I thought I'd get too jittery.

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It doesn't do any of that and
I'm standing up straighter.

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I'm not hunched over like a 80
year old woman.

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I'm only 55 and I was walking
around like a 75 year old woman

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half the time and I'm standing
up straighter, I'm smiling more.

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My husband's noticed an improved
mood.

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I've noticed an improved mood.
I'm able to walk further and

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it's not magic.
It's not a magic potion.

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I still have back pain.
It's nothing like it was and I

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can do more things for longer
periods of time than I could

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before, but I still have days
where I'm like, I hurt and today

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I have to rest.
So it's not a magic being.

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It's very effective, but I
admire that.

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You say you get down to a zero
on your pain skill.

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I haven't had that yet, but it's
only been not quite two months

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for me either.
And I don't think most people

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do, you know, I just go on
social media and I speak my

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truth.
I'm not surprised you say that

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initially.
You're hearing my, my story, my

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videos and thinking snake oil.
I'm sure people do.

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I just keep putting my message
out.

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I keep sharing my personal
experience because that's really

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all I can do is share my
personal experience.

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I'm always amazed.
I'm always shocked.

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I've been consuming kratom every
day for 5 1/2 years and every

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day I'm still like, wow, I can't
believe how well it helps my

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back and my neck with my pain.
Because like you were saying, I

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can remember just that feel like
I always felt like I was hunched

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over.
I had such a hard time getting

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up and down because of my lower
back.

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I always had to use my arms and
hands and push myself up from a

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sitting position.
I always had to brace myself to

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sit down.
I just looked older than what I

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was and felt older because of
the debilitating pain.

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And that's with the opioids and
pain management.

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But with kratom, I just feel
like I got a whole new lease on

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life where I just don't.
So I do have bad days too and I

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think we all do.
And you're so right, it's not a

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magic potion and it affects
everybody differently.

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And you know, it's just a plant.
It's a raw leaf powder.

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I just hear so many people
saying it's worth better than

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the opioids do, which is just to
me always so amazing to hear

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other people's stories with us
it.

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I agree and I feel like you.
I'm continually amazed that this

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natural plant that's not causing
me any ill effects is more

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effective than pain pills that
over long term damage our liver,

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damage our kidney.
There's definitely long term

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cognitive deficits for taking
opioids.

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What I tell you, my biggest fear
about this and my biggest hope

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is that I can help someone make
the decision to try this like

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you helped me.
If it weren't for you, I would

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have never done this.
And I hope someone says, oh, if

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it wasn't for that trust that
interview, I would have never

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done it.
That would be great.

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But my fear is that this will be
taken from us.

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Do you fear that that big Pharma
will see what's happening and

225
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:38,880
kratom will be?
A thing that hangs over us as

226
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:46,520
kratom consumers because in
2016, the FDA tried to federally

227
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,560
ban kratom because they're in
bed with big Pharma, right?

228
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,440
And we know Big Pharma does not
want us using a plant for our

229
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,320
pain.
It also helps people with

230
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,920
anxiety, depression, ADHD.
So many people are on

231
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,240
pharmaceuticals that could very
well do just as as well or

232
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,440
better using this plant called
kratom.

233
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,880
So they pressured, I mean, I
can't say for sure, but all of a

234
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,000
sudden the FDA tried to get it
banned federally.

235
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,640
So I'm sure that came from big
Pharma.

236
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,080
And in 2016, they were trying to
schedule and set it as a

237
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,640
schedule 1.
So putting it alongside heroin,

238
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,960
fentanyl, all the schedule one
drugs, even though this is not a

239
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,320
drug.
And apparently there was a huge

240
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,840
outpouring of support for kratom
from people all over the US to

241
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:39,720
the point that the FDA had to
step back and reconsider this.

242
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,800
And they were not very
forthcoming with information,

243
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,880
with studies and research.
All these years later, they're

244
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,840
still trying to ban it, sadly.
Now, what happened in 2016, even

245
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,960
though it did not federally get
banned, there were six states in

246
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,160
the US that decided let's just
go ahead and ban it in our state

247
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,400
because the government's about
to ban it nationally.

248
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,240
Let's just go ahead and ban it
at our state level.

249
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,480
And sadly, those particular
states is still banned.

250
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,720
And it's so hard to get things
unbanned.

251
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,360
Even though there's research,
there's so much information that

252
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,040
shows that kratom is not
harmful.

253
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:21,080
The FDA has even done a single
dose study with humans about a

254
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,320
year ago and shows that is safe
at all levels.

255
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,320
They fed these participants
capsules they gave them.

256
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,400
I mean, this is just hard to
believe because you say you're

257
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,840
taking about four to 5g per
dose.

258
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,560
I take about 5 grams per dose.
Oh, no, you said 5 to 6g and I'm

259
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,720
taking about 5 grams per dose.
And for me that's about two

260
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,040
teaspoons.
They were in this study, they

261
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,880
used capsules, they gave them
capsules, 12 grams of capsules

262
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,240
in a 5 minute period these
participants had to consume.

263
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,040
So first of all, that's like
more than double for me.

264
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,600
That's double for you and
capsules.

265
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,480
You're ingesting a lot of
capsule shells if you're taking

266
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,160
that much powder.
So this, I think those capsule

267
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,960
shells alone would make me
nauseous.

268
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:11,400
So the only adverse reaction in
this study with people was that

269
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,200
a few people got nauseous.
That was it with 12 grams of

270
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,960
powder in capsules.
So the FDA is has not publicly

271
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,920
put this out.
You know, it's been presented at

272
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,760
some at a kratom symposium with
researchers last year.

273
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,600
But you go to the FDA's website
and they demonize kratom.

274
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,480
Right.
And the, the there's no

275
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,680
respiratory depressant.
No, there's not.

276
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,400
And and opioids, that's the
biggest I know friends of

277
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,480
friends that had died from using
excessive opioids or mixing with

278
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,720
other substance.
And you stop breathing and die

279
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,440
in your sleep.
The the fear of that is what

280
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,720
kept me from ever abusing my
opioids or drinking alcohol

281
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,720
while taking opioids because you
can literally stop breathing and

282
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:58,440
die.
Yeah.

283
00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,240
And it happens.
That can't.

284
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:00,600
Happen.
Yeah, it happens to pain

285
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,160
patients.
You know, it's just it happens

286
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,760
sadly.
You know, you're prescribed from

287
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,240
your doctor and whether you're
combining it with alcohol,

288
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,440
taking too much or having an
adverse reaction with that in

289
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,760
another, like some over the
counter, I think I've heard

290
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,000
stories with like Benadryl or
cough syrup, you know, that that

291
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,880
some people interact and it
kills them with kratom.

292
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,480
It's not you're not going to
stop breathing.

293
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,960
Researchers have done so many
studies with this.

294
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,640
The top kratom researchers, they
all say the same thing, that

295
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,520
there's no respiratory
depression and the people that

296
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,600
have died is a very, very small
number.

297
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,640
And the ones that have they're
typically polydrunk use.

298
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,240
So they had all these other
substances in their system plus

299
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,040
kratom.
And many times they're, you

300
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,080
know, narcotics.
They're this fentanyl, It's

301
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,200
heroin.
It's all these things that, you

302
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,200
know, is what caused the death.
But because kratom was in their

303
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,480
system, some of these medical
examiners have decided, oh, it

304
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,440
was a kratom death.
And it's just really frustrating

305
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,400
because the government really
keeps trying to find ways to ban

306
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,760
this plant that helps millions
of people in the US.

307
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,440
And so it is always a constant
thing that hangs over us.

308
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,280
It is a fear.
They can't patent it.

309
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,560
They can't make money off it.
And it's not just helping pain

310
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,040
patients, like you said, it's
helping people with depression,

311
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,120
anxiety.
I saw a video yesterday where a

312
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:29,600
man was very chronic alcoholic
and he said he was able to stop

313
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,600
drinking alcohol.
And I thought, wow, I never even

314
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,920
thought about that.
And alcoholism is, it's one of

315
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:44,040
the addictions and diseases that
will kill you and it's a slow

316
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,680
death and it'll kill you.
The withdrawals can kill you.

317
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,960
So I think only alcohol and
Xanax are the only two

318
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,240
withdrawals you can actually die
from.

319
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,240
But if kratom can help people
with addictions that you know,

320
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,800
withdrawal could actually kill
you.

321
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,960
That's kind of a wonder drug.
Right.

322
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,480
This is why a wonder.
Plant, I should say, Yeah.

323
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,640
Wonderful.
This is why I advocate so hard,

324
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,400
because I spent nine years in
pain management.

325
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,920
I never heard of kratom.
Nobody ever mentioned it in the

326
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,600
pain community.
I wish I'd known about it

327
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,480
sooner.
I would have started way sooner.

328
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,080
And I don't want anybody to go
through what I went through,

329
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,960
which was being dropped from
pain management through no fault

330
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,240
of my own.
Because not only do you have the

331
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,480
FDA with their issues, you know,
with pain management and wanting

332
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,320
to reduce the production of
opioids and have doctors not

333
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,640
prescribe as much, you know,
and, and take away kratom.

334
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,240
It's like they just want to take
away everything for pain

335
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,880
patients.
They don't want to take an

336
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,480
opioids or they want to curb how
many opioids except Suboxone,

337
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,760
except Suboxone.
Well, that's that's a big money

338
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,040
maker.
And so, yeah, they're forcing

339
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,800
doctors to prescribe that
instead.

340
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,920
And it's not designed to treat
pain and it rots your teeth out.

341
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,880
There's lawsuits now, people
suing the makers because they've

342
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,400
lost all their teeth.
And these are people that were

343
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,360
have, you know, are young.
And.

344
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,960
Sad.
Yeah, and terrible, terrible

345
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,760
withdrawals from what I
understand.

346
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,320
Very bad withdrawals.
Opioid withdrawals are

347
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,480
uncomfortable, but Suboxone or I
guess are really that and the

348
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,080
doses are much higher.
I, I don't understand, but you

349
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,080
know, I would have refused, I
would have never agreed to

350
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:27,360
Suboxone because of what I knew
about it.

351
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,240
So I'm so glad to have found
kratom.

352
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,160
It's an amazing plant.
I do feel cheated that it was

353
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,080
kept from us like.
Right.

354
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,080
Why didn't people say you don't
want to take opioids, you should

355
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,080
try this natural plant?
Yeah, or if you're getting, if

356
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,200
your doctor is tapering you
down, you know, some, I mean, a

357
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,520
lot of people are like me that
were just completely dropped,

358
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,760
like we're not prescribing
anymore.

359
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,640
You need to go find a new
Doctor.

360
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,920
In my case, no other doctor
would take over.

361
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,440
So what am I supposed to do?
They don't understand in the

362
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,680
medical community, if you take
away our ability to get

363
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,200
prescribe medications for our
chronic pain that we're going to

364
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,800
have to like go to the streets
and we shouldn't have to go the

365
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:12,960
streets to go by illegally.
The medications that at least

366
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,880
allowed us to have some quality
of life.

367
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,520
And that that was the direction
that I was headed, which I did

368
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,800
not want to go to.
But I didn't know what else to

369
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,440
do.
And thank God I found kratom

370
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,920
from the documentary of Leap of
Faith.

371
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,240
It just happened to pop up on my
Netflix.

372
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,440
It's now on YouTube.
I'll put the link in the show

373
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,480
notes if people want to check
out the documentary.

374
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,600
But that documentary is what
opened up my eyes and I'm

375
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,000
thinking, why does nobody talk
about this in the pain

376
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,680
community?
So that's why I'm very vocal on

377
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,680
social media with this podcast,
wherever I can go and share my

378
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,640
message that there are
alternatives and people in the

379
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,840
pain community are starting to
learn about kratom.

380
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,440
They're finding my videos,
they're finding this podcast.

381
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,040
And I just want people to know
there's alternatives, there's

382
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,120
other things that's worth
looking into.

383
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,040
And I would have, I would have
loved to have fired my pain

384
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,040
management doctor.
You know, I hated that I had to

385
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,960
go through what I went through.
It was, I feel terrible that you

386
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,280
just got dropped like that, but
I think that's where all pain

387
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,440
management is headed, honestly.
And I feel that one day they're

388
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:22,360
all going to say you either take
the Suboxone or you're out up on

389
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,360
the streets.
Sorry, sorry about your luck.

390
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,160
I fear for people having
surgeries and not being

391
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,560
prescribed opioids after.
I think you know, Claudia,

392
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:38,320
Claudia also, she talks about
mastectomy patients, amputees

393
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,120
being sent home with no opioids.
It's horrible.

394
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:45,160
And again, this is where
kratom's going to come in.

395
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,520
And I fear that once the
Pharmaceutical industry starts

396
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,520
losing millions and millions of
dollars over a natural holistic

397
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,760
remedy.
And there's so much bad

398
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,080
information about kratom, too,
when I started researching it,

399
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,120
there is all these, you know,
fear tactics, scare stories, the

400
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,840
stuff you buy in the smoke shop,
the liquids, the extracts.

401
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,240
And that's not what you and I
are talking about or promoting.

402
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,120
That's garbage.
I don't even know what's in half

403
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,040
that stuff.
I went only through your

404
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,000
vendors, that through your
experience.

405
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,840
That's all I'm using to buy my
kratom, the leaf, the tea.

406
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,480
It's natural.
I would never try those other

407
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,320
things from the gas stations or
smoke shops and I think those

408
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,200
can be dangerous.
Well, anything that's an extract

409
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,720
can be dangerous, not just for
kratom, but like there's all

410
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,240
kinds of things out in the world
that are an extract version,

411
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:44,680
which means it's going to be
stronger.

412
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,800
It's synthetic.
And it's sad that you got a

413
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,800
whole leaf powder.
Kratom that we consume.

414
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,960
We're responsible users.
It's just a plant.

415
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,280
It's just powder.
We got other products called

416
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,600
kratom that are extracts.
They're very potent.

417
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,240
They're synthesized from one or
two extracts from the plant.

418
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,280
And there's confusion with
people.

419
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,160
They just think all kratom is
kratom.

420
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,040
But there are products out there
that I have never taken, I will

421
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,080
never take and I would never
recommend anybody take You like

422
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,680
what you're talking about.
Whole leaf kratom powder is the

423
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,160
way to go.
If you don't get the relief

424
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,480
you're looking for with that, I
would be very careful with, you

425
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,840
know, moving over to these other
products.

426
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,600
I find that when I hear these
stories of people abusing

427
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,960
extracts or these new 708
products we're hearing about,

428
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,320
they're just trying to get high.
They're doing what they did with

429
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,760
opioids.
They just consume a crazy amount

430
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,400
and then blame kratom for their
problems because of that, you

431
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,680
know, and it just gives kratom a
bad name.

432
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,120
It's kind of the American way.
We, we like to take a good thing

433
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,160
and use it to excess and then
blame that thing for our

434
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,520
excessive behaviors.
And the reason I say that

435
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,080
because it was you, how long has
it been used in Pacific Rim

436
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,520
countries where they were just
using it fine.

437
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080
And it wasn't until it came to
America and became readily

438
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,920
available, like you said, all
these synthesized versions that

439
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,400
we took a a good thing and kind
of just screwed it up.

440
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,120
And it's because of excess.
And if you take too much of

441
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,880
anything, you're going to get
sick.

442
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,440
If you drink too much coffee,
you're going to get sick if you

443
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,040
drink.
You know, we just, we're very

444
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,400
big on excess in this country.
And I think that's where a lot

445
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,160
of the problems come from.
I totally agree.

446
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,480
I want to back up to when you
were first learning about

447
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,600
kratom.
So you mentioned earlier that

448
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,440
you've found out about kratom
through my tick tock, right?

449
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,560
You, you first.
That was when you first heard

450
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,280
you saw my tick tock.
So I'm just wondering like, how

451
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,160
did my tick tock show up on your
feed?

452
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,480
I mean, probably it could.
I mean, if you were like

453
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,920
following Claudia Morandi, you
mentioned, you know, she's great

454
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,560
advocate for the pain community.
She shares so much information.

455
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,680
So I'm connected with her.
I get on her TikTok all the time

456
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,840
and comment she's actually
shared some of my videos.

457
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,160
Even though she's not a kratom
consumer, she is all for kratom

458
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,640
as an alternative if you cannot
get your pain meds.

459
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,400
So I'm wondering in the TikTok
algorithm, is that why you

460
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,400
because you had never heard of
kratom before?

461
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,120
But I guess you are getting
content about the chronic pain

462
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:29,120
community, is that right?
Yes, I am certain the algorithm

463
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:33,200
steered me towards you because I
did follow Claudia and I believe

464
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,000
a few other chronic pain
patients learning how to

465
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,040
advocate for myself to continue
to be prescribed the pain

466
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,080
medication.
And I will have to say by my

467
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,920
doctor, I had it I one doctor
for years and then he left to

468
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,880
move to another state and I got
a new Doctor and that's really

469
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,760
when the problem started.
She just wasn't going to

470
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,680
prescribe opioids to anyone.
And through Claudia, I did learn

471
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,480
to advocate for myself and speak
with her on the level that she

472
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,400
understood I wasn't part of the
problem.

473
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,560
And she was still prescribing
for me.

474
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,480
And I was very grateful because
a lot of people got just kind of

475
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,320
the bums rush out the door, like
you said, what happened to you

476
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,400
or they just got dropped
completely.

477
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,560
So I'm definitely certain and
thankful that the algorithm

478
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,440
steered me to you from the
chronic pain community.

479
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,840
I'm so glad because that's my
mission has really been to just

480
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,800
try to help people in the shoes
I used to be in, you know, when

481
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,760
I was in pain management and
what would have loved to have

482
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,400
learned about an alternative.
But also trying to help people

483
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,320
that are getting dropped or
being tapered down just to know

484
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,720
that, hey, I've been there.
I understand this and this is

485
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,120
something that's helping me.
You don't have to believe me,

486
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,960
but I'm going to keep putting my
story out because it's my truth.

487
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,080
And if it just helps one person,
I'm so happy.

488
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:05,080
Like I just anybody that wants
to hear my stories, learn more

489
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,640
about this plan.
I always encourage everybody do

490
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,400
your research, you know, learn
more.

491
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,600
Here's some information, you
know, go learn more about it.

492
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,920
Feel free to ask me questions.
And I'm just amazed that more

493
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,640
and more people are starting to
look into this now in the paying

494
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,880
community.
They're looking for

495
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,240
alternatives.
And TikTok has been amazing.

496
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,960
Like people are on TikTok
looking for this stuff and the

497
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,920
algorithm has been really
helpful.

498
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,160
Well, not only did I find you
and watch your TikTok and learn

499
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,960
from it, you know, several more
after that, but I reached out to

500
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,200
you and I commented on your your
post and you reached out to me

501
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,600
and you messaged me.
And I really, I can't express

502
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,080
how grateful I am to you for
kind of holding my hand and

503
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,360
walking me through this.
You showed me how to get access

504
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,640
to your community of other
creative users.

505
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000
You spoke with me privately via
our private e-mail tech, you

506
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,080
know, giving me words of
encouragement and sharing your

507
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,720
vendor list and your years of
experience.

508
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,760
And I really am truly grateful
to you for opening my eyes and

509
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,920
and showing me this alternative.
I hope I can do that for someone

510
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,440
else.
Oh, I have no doubt you will.

511
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,760
I just can relate to people that
you know were in your shoes.

512
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,760
I was in those shoes and when I
was dropped and trying to

513
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,480
desperately find information,
there wasn't as much information

514
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,200
and TikTok was just not what it
is now.

515
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,880
So I luckily found a Facebook
group that was helpful, but

516
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,800
people weren't as forthcoming
with like, being like a

517
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,600
cheerleader, you know, messaging
me and kind of, you know,

518
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,640
because it's scary.
You just don't know what to

519
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,360
expect.
You don't know, like in my case

520
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,400
being dropped, I was worried
about going through withdrawals

521
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,320
because nine years, of course
I'm going to have physical

522
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,960
dependency on those medications.
I was taking care of my elderly

523
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:02,560
mom who's handicapped and I was
thinking, you know, I got to be

524
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,320
able to take care of her.
What if I need somebody to take

525
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,280
care of me because I'm going
through withdrawals And that

526
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,000
doesn't even address the pain
that I will be having too, you

527
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,200
know, not having access to my
meds.

528
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:19,520
It was a very scary time.
And so once I got figured out

529
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,280
Kratom on my own, got to where I
am today, I'm like anybody that

530
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,560
I can help that is willing to
listen to me.

531
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,480
I want to be their cheerleader.
I want to be able to provide

532
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,440
information that I've already
researched and they can take

533
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,160
that and do what they want with
it.

534
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,080
I'm not preaching, I'm not
forcing anything.

535
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,480
I'm not a vendors, I'm not
personally selling, but I'm also

536
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,680
not afraid to share with people
what vendors I personally buy my

537
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,600
kratom from because that was
something that people weren't

538
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,520
really talking about when I
first started.

539
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,360
It was really hard for me to
figure out where can I buy that

540
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,400
kratom from a reputable vendor.
That lab test and you did.

541
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,000
There's so many unknowns in the
beginning, so I'm just always

542
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,160
happy to help people with an
answer any questions they have.

543
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,480
So I really appreciate you being
receptive to that and taking

544
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,560
that leap because I know it's
not easy.

545
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,600
I remember how hard it was for
me and look at where you're at

546
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,000
now.
It's just so amazing to hear.

547
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:19,440
Well, I, like you said, I, I do
feel, I'm also amazed that not

548
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,000
only and I this, I guess if I
get one thing across to someone,

549
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,120
it's scary.
Like you said, I was afraid of

550
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,440
the effects of it.
I was afraid it wasn't going to

551
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,800
manage my withdrawal coming off
years of opioids.

552
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,400
And then even if it did that,
how could it possibly manage my

553
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,640
pain?
And we've taken these

554
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,040
medications for so long, we, we
really think we cannot function

555
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,240
without them.
We can't take a walk with our

556
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,480
dog.
We can't play with our kids or

557
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,440
grandchildren because we don't
have this medication that we've

558
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,560
had in our life for so many
years.

559
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,040
So even if I can manage the
withdrawal with this plant,

560
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,200
there's no way I'm going to be
able to manage the pain.

561
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,440
And it does both.
I promise you it will do both.

562
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,840
If it's not helping enough,
you're probably not taking

563
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,760
enough.
That's what I had to learn.

564
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,560
I was under dosing myself for
longer than I probably should

565
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,480
have out of fear and not wanting
to feel strange.

566
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Like you said that that study,
they were taking 12 grams at a

567
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,800
time.
And I'm assuming those were

568
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,960
opioid naive, just people off
the street.

569
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,440
If you're opioid tolerant,
you're probably going to need a

570
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,880
little more kratom.
You're going to need to get

571
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,600
through the withdrawal phase and
that might take a week or two.

572
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,520
And then you're going to have to
figure out what your pain dosage

573
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440
is and you might have to up it a
little.

574
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,960
But again, the great thing about
upping your kratom dose, it's

575
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,240
not like taking too many opioids
as we've discussed, you're not

576
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,320
going to stop breathing from it.
I think the worst thing people

577
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,560
do, it hasn't happened to me
yet, but is get dizzy and vomit.

578
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,480
Is that correct?
Yeah, if you take too much

579
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,199
kratom in a dose that the worst
thing that happens is you throw

580
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:12,239
up and then you feel better
right afterwards.

581
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,120
You just got to get it out of
your system.

582
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,840
You might get the WOB, what they
call the wobbles, where you just

583
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,840
feel kind of crappy.
You got to lay down for a little

584
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,639
bit.
So the key is to not take too

585
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,600
much.
But so many people start off

586
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,600
like what you said, under dosing
because there's that fear.

587
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,120
You don't know what to expect.
You don't want to feel weird.

588
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,840
You don't want to feel loopy.
You're not going to feel loopy

589
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,600
from kratom.
But so many people I've talked

590
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,199
to, when they started, they
would reach out to me and say, I

591
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,840
just don't think this stuff
works.

592
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,480
I'm just not feeling it.
And then I would come to find

593
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,600
that their dose was really,
really low.

594
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,800
Now, I'm not a medical
professional, so I can't tell

595
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,840
somebody what to take, but I
just share with my experience

596
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,760
when the amount I took, when it
didn't do anything, I took a

597
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,880
little bit more and I just
really worked on that, finding

598
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,400
that perfect dose where I felt
like I'm getting the pain relief

599
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,000
I was looking for.
So, so many times people have

600
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,160
been so hesitant.
And then when they try a little

601
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,840
bit more, they're like, oh, oh,
OK, I get it now.

602
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,240
This is even better.
Exactly.

603
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,560
And that's when I was telling
you I'm not getting the pain

604
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,520
relief.
I'm really frustrated.

605
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,320
And you said stay with it.
Someone else recommended just

606
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,440
try a little more.
And again, I think it's

607
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,880
important that we discussed the
difference between opioid

608
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,320
tolerant people and opioid naive
people because my husband has

609
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,960
tried the kratom.
He's tried it for focus and

610
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,200
clarity.
And he takes a very small dose,

611
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,440
I mean, barely a teaspoon.
And he's he likes the white

612
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,960
kratom and it helps clear his
head.

613
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,240
It helps him with a project.
He does it once a day.

614
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,680
If I took that little amount, it
wouldn't do anything for me.

615
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,040
So again, he's the kind of
person that if he takes the

616
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,560
Benadryl, he's asleep for 12
hours.

617
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,720
Then I think that's an important
thing.

618
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:01,760
If you're using this as a pain
relief and you've been on

619
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,360
opioids for years, you're
probably going to have to have a

620
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,280
little bit more.
And I felt guilty taking more,

621
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,800
like, am I abusing this or?
And I I don't want people to

622
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,920
feel that way.
If you start out with 2G and you

623
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,800
get up to 6g per dose, and I do
recommend weighing it, it's OK.

624
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,320
You're not a bad person for
taking 5 or 6 grams of kratom if

625
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,280
that's what helps you.
I agree.

626
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,240
The best advice that was for me
and for so many others that have

627
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:34,400
said to, you know, in them
sharing their story with me is

628
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,680
to listen to your body, let your
body dictate.

629
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,720
Everybody's different.
You know, it's a plant, so it's

630
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:40,320
going to affect everybody
differently.

631
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,840
And like with you, I'm coming
from years of, you know, pain

632
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,600
management with these opioids.
So I'm trying to avoid

633
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,800
withdrawals and get pain relief.
And it was a process.

634
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,200
It took me several weeks that my
main objective was to just not

635
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,400
go into physical withdrawals,
especially because of Oxycontin,

636
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,880
gabapentin, Percocet.
I I knew you know that I would

637
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,600
probably feel something stopping
those, but kratom really

638
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,560
minimized all that for me.
I, I think the most I had was

639
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,400
hot flashes when I stopped the
Oxycontin, but over time kratom

640
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,840
worked better and better.
I think as those opiates get out

641
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,040
of your system, I think also
you're figuring out your dose,

642
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,080
but also with the opiates
getting out of your system,

643
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,080
kratom starts working better and
better over time.

644
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,560
I could go longer between doses.
I got to the point where instead

645
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,600
of I would be dosing like every
two to three, three to four

646
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,080
hours.
Then I got to the point where

647
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,800
it's consistently months over
period of months, 4 hours every

648
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,120
four hours consistently.
Then I was able to go to five

649
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,880
hours.
I've been at six hours.

650
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,920
I dose every six hours.
For years now, I've been at this

651
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,400
dose and taking about 5 grams
per dose and that's what works

652
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,600
for me.
I know people that take way less

653
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,520
than me.
I know people that take more

654
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,840
than me.
It's finding what works for you

655
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,000
individually.
I agree and I I don't for me, I

656
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,600
had like I was afraid I was
taking too much.

657
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,800
I was afraid when I and I don't
want a new person to feel that

658
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,760
way.
Like you said, start out with

659
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,120
the less is more definitely, but
if it's not working, try a

660
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,560
little more.
Try a little more.

661
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,880
Write everything down.
That was so important.

662
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,200
I'm still writing in my journal
that you told me.

663
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,480
I'm writing the times and the
colors, and I'm also writing my

664
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,320
pain scale.
Not every time, but when I'm

665
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,160
having a really bad day and I'm
go, OK, it's 3:00 in the

666
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,120
afternoon, My pain is like a 7
or 8 and I'm going to take 6

667
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,520
grams of red and then I'll go
back couple hours later and

668
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,520
write down my payment to three
or four.

669
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,920
And I have proof of that from
keeping this journal.

670
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,000
And that's like, I never had
that kind of relief with the

671
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,080
opioids.
Yeah, that's amazing.

672
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,600
I think keeping a journal is the
smartest thing you can do when

673
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,240
you're new to kratom.
I did my journal for like a good

674
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:57,080
eight or nine months.
I did it for a really long time,

675
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,760
probably longer than I needed
to, but it made it so easy to

676
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,920
refer back to it to see what was
working, which one of these was

677
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,280
working better, what dose, what
color, what type, what vendor?

678
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,280
Maybe there's a vendor working
better than another.

679
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,520
It really, because it's easy to
say, I'll remember in my mind,

680
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,200
but many times we're dealing
with life, think all kinds of

681
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,400
things are happening, but to
have it written down just makes

682
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,120
it easier to look back and see
what was working.

683
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:23,920
So I'm so glad you did the
journal.

684
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,120
Tell me this try say so how long
has your journey been now?

685
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,440
I mean, I know you're very new.
You're you're over a month.

686
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,560
I could you know how many days
it's been.

687
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,120
I, I think in the beginning of
February.

688
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,320
So let's see, we're about two
weeks and it's probably been six

689
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,000
weeks.
Wow.

690
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:47,720
Six or seven weeks, and it feels
like a different lifetime from

691
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:52,040
going from the anxiety of going
to the doctor every three

692
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,400
months.
Even though the doctors weren't

693
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,520
kind to me and they weren't, you
know, judgmental.

694
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,800
They started to get a little
judgmental, but the nurses were

695
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,480
kind.
Reception was kind.

696
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:07,080
And then anxiety of having to
negotiate my pain medication for

697
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,960
another three months.
And then, OK, that's resolved.

698
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,200
We're all on the same page.
And then going to the pharmacy

699
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,720
and, oh, we're out of stock.
Oh, this.

700
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,840
Call your doctor and see if
they'll prescribe something else

701
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,840
because that's on backward.
To be rid of all that is like

702
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,280
living another life and to have
my pain managed better.

703
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,600
And to feel happier and to be
more active.

704
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,080
It's just six weeks ago I was
literally living a different

705
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,360
life.
That's just amazing how much has

706
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,080
changed for you in six weeks.
I can relate because I've been

707
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,160
there.
I don't miss the pharmacy

708
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,680
dealing with that.
Oh my gosh, always an issue with

709
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,920
pharmacy.
So what you were just saying I

710
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,720
can so relate to.
Yeah.

711
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,120
You know, pain management, it's
like its own thing.

712
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,080
You know, I felt I used to tell
people it's like a part time

713
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,280
job.
Like there was just so much to

714
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,040
it.
Just having to keep going to the

715
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,600
doctor so much having to make
sure we're I'm on a plan that

716
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,720
works for my pain.
And there would be times where

717
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,360
one of the meds I would just be
building too much of A

718
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,000
tolerance.
We'd have to try different

719
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,440
opioid and then is it going to
work or is it not going to work?

720
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,520
Is insurance going to cover?
There were times where insurance

721
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,880
insurance wouldn't cover one of
the meds and we'd have to, you

722
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,800
know, deal with that.
And it was always an up and down

723
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,040
thing.
And then you add the pharmacy on

724
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,000
top of it.
I don't miss that at all.

725
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,520
I feel like even though pain
management was taken away from

726
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,640
me, which nobody should be put
in that position, I felt like

727
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,400
through this whole experience, I
got my life back.

728
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,480
I love the position I'm in now
where I don't have to deal with

729
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,080
all of that anymore and I'm
taking charge of my own

730
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,000
healthcare through a plant,
which still just blows me away.

731
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,480
So are you, So you're about six
weeks and are you still going to

732
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,160
your pain management doctor or
what's going on with that now?

733
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:01,480
I had an appointment scheduled
for my regular three month

734
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,160
appointment.
I believe it was the beginning

735
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,440
of January.
I had it and I'm like, I don't

736
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,480
need this.
I don't need refills.

737
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,320
I don't need to go to this
doctor.

738
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,200
I called and I left a message
with the nurse who's always been

739
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,240
super kind to me and very
supportive.

740
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,520
And I just told her, I said, I'm
calling to tell you I don't need

741
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,600
to come in anymore.
I'm off all opioids.

742
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,360
I don't need to waste the
doctor's time with pain

743
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,320
management because it was just a
medication appointment.

744
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,280
I've done all the injections and
ablations and those don't work

745
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,200
and I'm not going to buy into
that anymore.

746
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,680
And I said I'm off the opioids,
I don't need refills.

747
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,000
I don't need to see the doctor.
And I appreciate all you all

748
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,800
have done for me.
But please let doctor know that

749
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,960
I won't be coming in anymore.
And it was such a good feeling.

750
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,720
I felt like you said I'm, I'm
taking the control back and the

751
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:04,240
power over my own healthcare and
pain management.

752
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,080
I can take this plant when I
want, how I want.

753
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,920
It helps me so much better.
And it was like kind of getting

754
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,440
control of your life that.
That is just so amazing.

755
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,040
That must have just been an
incredible feeling, leaving that

756
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,160
message with the doctor's
office, but nobody was

757
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,520
interested.
Like to learn more?

758
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,800
Like call you back and be like
what are you doing instead?

759
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,920
No, they weren't, and that
doesn't surprise me at all.

760
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:34,200
What is a?
Business, you know they are

761
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,680
abuse.
And they were kind of already

762
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,840
getting the, not the nurses, but
the doctor was already like,

763
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,360
well, do you want to do more
ablations or do you want to do

764
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,360
more steroid injections?
I'm like, no, I probably did a

765
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,960
dozen of them over the years
when I was trying to work with

766
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,560
this damage.
I would do anything so that I

767
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,640
could function at work and none
of it helped.

768
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,040
Maybe like a week or two.
But they said, Oh yeah, this

769
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,960
will last six months to a year.
And I'm like, well, let's do

770
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,720
that.
It never lasted that long.

771
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,280
Same with me.
And and it was so painful.

772
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,360
I mean, I remembered those
epidurals that just into the

773
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,400
nerves in your spinal cord is my
legs would involuntarily twitch

774
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:27,000
and I would like blurt out
expletives because it was so

775
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,000
painful.
I'm like, I'm putting myself

776
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,240
through excruciating pain to try
to manage excruciating pain this

777
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,800
and they're not.
They didn't put you under

778
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,920
anesthesia for the epidural
steroid injections?

779
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,560
They I've always had anesthesia
for those so at least I was they

780
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,080
gave.
Me a little versette.

781
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,960
No, I'd be.
I'd be completely knocked out

782
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,760
with anesthesia.
I've done about a dozen between

783
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,080
the epidural steroid injections
and those radio frequency

784
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,760
ablations, and those ablations
were even though I was under

785
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,160
anesthesia for those two, that's
a much more invasive procedure.

786
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,040
So that was always more of a
painful recovery every time I

787
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,400
had those.
Never.

788
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,320
Anesthetized, just a little
verset on board.

789
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,080
Really.
I excruciating.

790
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,520
I can't even imagine.
Wow.

791
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,360
I've heard some stories where
people said they were not on

792
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,800
under anesthesia, but most
people seem to be under

793
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,840
anesthesia for that.
I think it depends on the doctor

794
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,880
and the facility.
Wow, you've been through a lot.

795
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,680
And that's, like, their big
money maker anyway.

796
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,040
So, like, that's how they make
their money.

797
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:26,800
I never realized it when I was
in it.

798
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,960
I like you.
Like, OK, if it helps, if you

799
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,760
think it'll make me feel better.
Sure.

800
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,240
And the doctor would always say,
yeah, you probably won't need as

801
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:36,240
many prescriptions.
You will probably be able to,

802
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,200
you know, bring down the number
of pills because you'll feel

803
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:41,760
better.
And I never felt better.

804
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,000
I know it never worked.
I always went along with it, but

805
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,440
it never worked.
Me too.

806
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,680
Because you think, well, why
would this doctor, you know, do

807
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,960
anything that wasn't in my best
interest?

808
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,480
Yeah, good business.
Well, I am just so thrilled you

809
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,200
came on the podcast to Share
your story.

810
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,720
I know this will help other
people, especially people that

811
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:05,760
are brand new like you are.
It is so hard to just take that

812
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,360
leap and start because there's
so much unknown and I'm so glad

813
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,400
that you connected.
You reached out to me.

814
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,760
I was, you know, more than happy
to help you.

815
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,080
So I'm so glad that you were
receptive to chatting with me.

816
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,640
I know we did lots of private
messages and you joined our

817
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,400
Kratom Real Talk community where
not only could you also message

818
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,840
me there, but so many other
people in our community could.

819
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,200
You would always be asking
questions and always getting

820
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,000
answers from the whole
community, which is just nice.

821
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,400
It's nice to hear people's first
hand experience, you know that

822
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,600
I'm also kratom consumer so I
imagine that helped you a lot.

823
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,120
It really did.
And again, thank you so much for

824
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,760
inviting me to this world, for
educating me.

825
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,440
So many of the members of the
group were so supportive.

826
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,960
Like you said, I'd I could just
ask a question and not just get

827
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:56,560
your valuable opinion, but I can
get a dozen other people's

828
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,320
opinion out.
Maybe it didn't do this for you,

829
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,520
but it did for him and it did
for her, but not for him.

830
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,360
And it was so nice to have
supportive people to talk to

831
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,960
through this because no, people
don't know about this.

832
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,800
And that's what I'm hoping my,
my story can help people go,

833
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,200
well, it's not just one or two
people.

834
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,640
Maybe they're not all stink oil
salesman.

835
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,920
Maybe I I can help someone else
achieve this freedom and really

836
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,880
freedom from paying.
Freedom from so much.

837
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,480
It's amazing to find that there
are millions of us in the US

838
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,120
that consume kratom.
I had no idea in the beginning,

839
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,080
but yeah, there's like millions
of kratom consumers.

840
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,920
So it's it's pretty amazing.
I know why now, yeah.

841
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,640
Well, this has been such a great
interview, Teresa.

842
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,440
Teresa, great.
Thank you so much for joining.

843
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,800
Normally I to end with the
question, knowing everything you

844
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,520
know now, what advice would you
give to someone just starting

845
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:53,640
out?
But you pretty much have been

846
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:56,040
answering that throughout this
because you talked about keeping

847
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,600
a journal about, you know, not
being afraid to try a little bit

848
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,080
more because many times where we
are starting with less than what

849
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,880
we should.
Any other little tips as we

850
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,800
close out for someone getting?
Started definitely use don't go

851
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,600
get it from the gas station.
Don't take your pain medication

852
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,320
and kratom.
It's not going to work.

853
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,400
If you're afraid it's not going
to work and you're a pain

854
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:23,040
patient, put your pain
medication in another room or in

855
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,240
a closet or something.
Just put it away and try the

856
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,280
kratom for two weeks.
If it doesn't work, you have

857
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,320
your pain pills you can go back
to that's your little safety

858
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,440
net.
I had medication.

859
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,520
I still have it because I was I
had wanted that safety net.

860
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,400
I haven't touched it and six
weeks or seven weeks, however

861
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,240
long it's been, and I don't plan
on it, but knowing it's there

862
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,280
was my little, I don't know.
It was my little safety net to

863
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,320
know if this didn't work for me,
I could go back to the old ways

864
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,760
and I will never go back.
That is such excellent advice

865
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,840
for I said.
Thank you so much for joining me

866
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,760
and sharing your experience with
Kratom to our community.

867
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,920
Thank you for having me.
I really appreciate you having

868
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,160
me today.
Thank you for listening.

869
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:16,000
You can get more information at
kratomstoriespodcast.com,

870
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,440
including show notes from this
episode.