Ep 65: Stephanie Sue's Story of Resilience and Recovery as a Kratom Industry Insider

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Don't Google it.
I honestly I googled it, you

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know some at 1st and it just not
only that you'll get a lot of

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misinformation but you'll get a
lot of contradicting information

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too and it becomes really
confusing.

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I would go into the if you're
going to do it like on Facebook

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or something, go into the
private groups if you aren't

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sure where to go.
There are tons of people on

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Facebook and TikTok.
If you can, just look up public

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posts, but basically go to the
stories and watch and read the

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posts of the people that are
actually using it.

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Welcome to Kratom Stories, a
weekly podcast where we share

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stories of how this amazing
plant has changed our lives.

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I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.
Each week I'll bring you a new

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episode featuring interviews
with experts, advocates, and

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everyday people who've
experienced the benefits of

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kratom first hand.
Join me as we dive deeper into

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the world of this botanical
wonder and discover the amazing

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stories behind this incredible
plant.

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The Kratom Stories Podcast is
presented solely for educational

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purposes.
Neither the podcast nor its host

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promote or endorse the use of
kratom, a substance not yet

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regulated or approved by the
FDA.

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The views and opinions expressed
by guests are theirs alone and

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do not necessarily reflect those
of the host or the podcast.

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The content is not intended as a
substitute for professional

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medical advice, diagnosis, or
treatment.

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Always seek the advice of your
physician or other qualified

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healthcare provider with any
questions regarding the use of

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kratom.
Before we dive into today's

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episode, I want to let you know
about Kratom Real Talk.

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It's a new community for
positive, uplifting discussions

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about the power of whole leaf
kratom.

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If you'd like to be part of the
conversation and learn more

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about this plate or contribute
your knowledge, go to

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kratomrealtalk.com.
So I'm here with Stephanie Sue

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today and she has such an
interesting kratom story.

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Can't wait to hear all about it.
Stephanie.

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Stephanie Sue, thank you so much
for doing this with me today.

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And, and coming on the podcast.
We met through TikTok.

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I'm just so amazed at how many
people, amazing people in our

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community I meet on TikTok.
So I just hope it doesn't go

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away because I don't know what
we're going to do if we don't

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have TikTok anymore.
I know I was sad for those 14

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hours.
I know wasn't that terrible like

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we all felt we were going to
like completely be gone.

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I mean, there's other social
media platforms, but there's

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something about TikTok with the
cradle community that we don't

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experience anywhere else.
So I hope it stays around.

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But I'm glad you and I did
connect on there.

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So I'm eager to hear your full
story.

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I know a little bit about you,
but I'm really eager for to

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learn more and have our guests
learn about you.

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So tell us a little bit about
yourself and life before kratom.

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So I originally grew up on the
East Coast.

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I've kind of gone back and forth
between West Virginia and

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Virginia.
Currently I'm in Virginia.

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I grew up kind of as like an
only child.

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I have siblings, but I have
actually five siblings, but all

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of them are half siblings and
I've never actually lived with

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any of them.
So I grew up as an only child

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wanting to kind of have the, you
know, sibling connection that I

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never really got.
And then as far as like growing

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up with my parents, they are
both, it was a really difficult

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time with them.
We did not grow up even middle

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class by any means.
And they also had substance

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abuse issues and those kinds of
things.

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So I kind of grew up in a very
chaotic world.

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And as you can imagine, growing
up like that into my early 20s

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as when I started to kind of
play around with substances I

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really shouldn't have been
playing around with.

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So that's me before.
It's really not that much

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either.
It was like childhood, teenage,

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early 20s and then boom,
addiction.

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And it was I, I mean, I knew
that I was going to struggle

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with it.
I just didn't know what

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substance that was going to be.
How long were you in active

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addiction?
I would say three years.

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It was late 2013 that I had
tried my drug of choice, which

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was opiates.
I tried that, not, you know, I

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had tried it before in the past
because I had had, you know,

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like AC section with my daughter
and but I never misused it.

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So 2013, late 2013 is when I
first misused it.

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And I would say I don't even
really remember because it's

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such a fog.
I don't remember my clean date.

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I just know it's 2016.
Somewhere in 2016 I eventually

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stopped.
Wow, so then how did you first

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hear about kratom?
Well, that is the funniest thing

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because I was, I was working at
a convenience store.

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I was a manager there, but I had
a second job working at like a

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head shop, VAIT shop kind of
kind of thing.

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And my manager there was
actually at the VAIT shop was a

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good friend of mine who we used
in active addiction together.

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However, when we were not able
to find something, and this was

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like a good week or two where we
were kind of in between pay

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days, we couldn't find anything.
We couldn't really hustle around

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to find anything.
And she told me about kratom and

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I played around with it.
I didn't really use it correctly

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at first, but that is what first
planted the seed in my head

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about kratom even exists.
Something like that even exists.

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And I didn't even really know
the extent of what it could do

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or how it could help.
It was just something that I

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played around with for a little
bit and I actually didn't, even

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after that week or two, I didn't
have much experience with kratom

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again until after I'd gotten
clean.

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Gotcha, so when you were working
in that head shop were y'all not

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selling kratom back then?
No, actually, that's so funny

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that you asked that.
I never, it did not even click

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in my mind.
No, they weren't selling Kratom.

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They were selling, you know,
like chillums and bongs.

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And I mean, they were, they were
selling a little bit of vape

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stuff.
This was like 2014 going into

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2015.
So vapes had just really gotten,

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you know.
But honestly, when they sold

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whippets, they sold bagged
tobacco.

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I'm surprised they didn't sell
Kratom, honestly.

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They really should have.
But no, they didn't.

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It was something that she had
ordered online for her mom, and

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she had some.
And she was like, well, if you

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want to try this.
And it didn't really do for me

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what I was looking for because I
didn't really know how to use

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it.
But it was just, you know, it

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was an idea like, oh, hey,
there's something else out there

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that, you know, I could probably
get away from the bad stuff

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with, you know?
Yeah.

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So when you were first trying
it, though, this first time

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around, there just wasn't a
whole lot of knowledge about it.

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It was just something she said,
hey, you could try this, but not

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really.
And it was, of course, before it

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really was available in smoke
shops at the level it is now.

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There wasn't as much information
online back then.

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So I could see where it's like,
well what is this and how do you

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even use it properly?
Yeah, well, the first time that

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I mixed it into a drink, I mixed
it into something carbonated,

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and we all know not to do that.
Right.

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So that was probably part of the
problem.

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Were you doing the toss and
wash?

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No, I, I didn't even really know
what, I didn't know what to do

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with it.
I was just mixing it in drinks

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and trying to drink it.
And I was thinking, hey, if I

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mix it into a drink that I
really like, maybe it won't

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taste as bad.
And what that was was a

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carbonated drink, and then it
got foamy and then it got wasted

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because I couldn't finish it.
Yeah.

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Oh, I can imagine.
I mean, I know some people do

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toss and wash with a soda and
I'm like, well, first of all, I

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don't do toss and wash.
It's just not for me.

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I just do the swamp water.
But I'm like, how can you do

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that with a soda?
But I don't think I've ever

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heard of somebody mixing it, the
powder into a soda and drinking

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it.
I could see where that would be

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a mess, so and and not it.
Definitely deterred me away for

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a good year or so after that.
So did you just try it that one

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time and it was like, OK, this
is not doing much?

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Well, it was like, I would say
it was like maybe three times

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over the course of a week.
I kept trying but it's I was

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just mixing it in a drink, you
know, I tried the carbonated

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drink, it got foamy and then I
tried probably like a non

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carbonated drink and it still
just tasted horrible and I

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couldn't, I just didn't know
what to do with it to get it

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palatable basically.
Gotcha.

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And during this time though you
were still in active addiction,

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this was just something to try
in between and in between

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paychecks.
So and then Fast forward to you

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said a few more years later
before you went back to trying

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it again.
Yes, correct.

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So what made you decide to try
again?

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I was actually, I was clean, but
I was, I was kind of on the off

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end of like relapsing and then
going a few weeks and then

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relapsing and then going a few
weeks.

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So what it was is my husband and
I had separated.

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We have since reconciled.
We've been married for almost 15

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years.
But during this time, and I'm

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assuming it's because, you know,
I was trying to get clean and

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stay clean.
And honestly, anyone who's done

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that or had a loved one that
does that, it's just a difficult

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time in general.
So we had separated and I was

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dating somebody at the time and
he had a friend who had kratom

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delivered to his house because
his parents didn't want it being

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delivered to their house.
And the person I was dating was

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like, Hey, I got to go take this
kratom to my friend.

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And I was like kratom, you know,
I remember that.

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I was like, you think they'll
let me have a little bit of

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that?
And this, this friend of his had

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been, you know, using it for a
little while.

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So he kind of got me to know
what to do, how much to take and

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that kind of thing.
And after that it was, it was on

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like it was, I was studying it,
I was getting into the groups, I

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was looking up everything.
It was great.

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And you probably said don't put
it in soda, right?

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No.
Well, actually he was the kind

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of kind of person where he would
just like throw it back in his

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mouth and take a drink.
Like this was like reverse toss

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and wash.
I was like, I can't do all of

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that.
So what I did is I did like a

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little bottle of juice, put it
in there, shook it up and just

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chugged it really fast and had a
chaser.

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And I never really even thought
of that before.

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But that's what and honestly,
there's I've tried other ways of

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taking kratom like I can toss
and wash, you know, I can do

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other things, capsules I can
sometimes do, but that's

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actually my preferred way to
take it now is to mix it up in

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some warm water and just have a
chaser.

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Yeah, yeah, that's what I, I
mean, I just heat up a little

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bit of warm water, add my
powder, add in a little bit of

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juice, just enough something to
drink it down.

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And that for me, that works
great.

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You know, that's just been a
great method.

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Can I give you a little bit of
the science behind why that

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works so great?
Sure, I'd love.

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To I think it's super
interesting so I was actually

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looking this up.
Have you ever heard of Red

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Bubble?
Yes, I have.

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Okay, so we all know that that's
kind of like an at home way to

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make, you know, at home extract,
which is basically you're just

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removing the plant matter away
from the metrajeny.

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However, the reason why mixing
it into some juice and warm

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water work so great is because
one the warm water bloats the

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plant matter, but then also the
citric acid within the juice is

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making the alkaloids within the
kratom more soluble.

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So when you when you take kratom
without mixing it in something

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like that, your body actually
expels it before you get the

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full effects.
What you're doing when you mix

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your Kratom in the juice and
some warm water is you're

224
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,840
already activating those
alkaloids.

225
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,960
So by the time that it gets into
your body, they're already

226
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,240
beginning to work.
So you're getting those effects

227
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,280
instead of waiting for the
alkaloids to be broken down by

228
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,360
your stomach acid.
So I thought that was really

229
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,440
cool.
That makes perfect sense to me.

230
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,920
I've always found that kratom
works really well when I use

231
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,720
orange juice.
So I know a lot of people were

232
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,520
telling me in the beginning when
I was researching like orange

233
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,520
juice, like orange juice or
lemon juice, some kind of citrus

234
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,840
juice.
And it's interesting how lemons,

235
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,560
when I would do lemons, it
didn't do anything for me, which

236
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:47,240
was bizarre because people raved
about lemons.

237
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,440
But with orange juice works so
well for me.

238
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,200
And I was like so.
But I know it varies from person

239
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,360
to person as well.
Yeah, I do lemon and lime juice,

240
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,520
but what I do is I take the,
it's not sweetened juice at all.

241
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,560
It's like the juice that you
would use in like baking and

242
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:02,960
stuff.
And I put that in with the

243
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,160
powder and I slowly mix that in
until it's like a pancake batter

244
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,000
type consistency.
I'll let it sit for a little bit

245
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,680
if I'm not in a rush or
anything.

246
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,760
Sometimes I'm in a rush though,
and then I'll put the warm water

247
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,200
in, mix that up and just shoot
it back.

248
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,360
Have a chaser.
Chaser is usually like apple

249
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,440
juice or something like that,
but and within 10 minutes we're

250
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,480
good to go.
It's so quick now when you like.

251
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,480
We're trying this this second
time around, years later.

252
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,840
Do you remember what year that
was?

253
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,800
That was 2016.
I know that that was.

254
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,160
I remember this because I was
beginning to order from the same

255
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,280
website that the guy that I was
dating at the time, his friend

256
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,000
was ordering from.
And when you buy from the

257
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,200
website, you put your e-mail in,
so you get signed up for their

258
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,160
e-mail letters.
And that's when I realized that

259
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,160
the DEA was working to try and
ban kratom.

260
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,080
I actually got that in an e-mail
to sign the petition.

261
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,440
And in my mind, I was like,
well, I don't want it to get

262
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,760
banned.
I'm going to go ahead and sign

263
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,680
it thinking that it wouldn't
make a difference.

264
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,840
I think that's what a lot of us
did that year.

265
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,080
A lot of us that were following
kratom, we thought, well, let's

266
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,880
sign the petition.
We don't want it banned,

267
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,720
although we don't think it's
going to make a difference.

268
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,760
And it still did.
It did.

269
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,880
So that's why I've been so huge
on kratom advocacy ever since

270
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,400
then, because we make a
difference.

271
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,480
Even if you don't think you're
going to in numbers, we make a

272
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,680
difference. 100% and while I
didn't discover kratom until

273
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:27,760
2019, learning about all those
advocacy efforts in 2016, so

274
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,440
many of us are grateful for what
all you all did.

275
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,360
Because it might not be here
today, because, you know, people

276
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,680
could have said, oh, this isn't
going to help, why bother?

277
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:40,440
Why sign a petition?
And it really shows the power of

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00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,000
advocacy and that our voices do
matter.

279
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,160
And I think that's why there's
so many of us that are loud,

280
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,240
proud advocates in our community
because we know everything

281
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:50,920
matters.
And that's why I do this

282
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,320
podcast.
I think we all have an

283
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,720
interesting story to tell and
people need to hear it.

284
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,120
And I think it's just so
important getting our message

285
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,000
out there.
So we're all so grateful for

286
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,800
y'all that that came before us.
That did a lot.

287
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,200
Yeah.
Because it's like, man, we might

288
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,040
not have ever discovered it.
People like me, Misty Brown and

289
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,320
others that found it after all
of that had happened.

290
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,080
We're always saying how grateful
we are for you all.

291
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,600
I've never.
Even thought about that, but

292
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,800
that's true.
A lot of the people that I am in

293
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,520
touch with who are huge into
advocacy now found it after the

294
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,480
fact and I never even thought
about that.

295
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,640
But it's, but The thing is, is a
lot of us that were big into

296
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,520
advocacy back in the day, we
honestly, and I'm not saying

297
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,680
that there's anything wrong with
this, but you know, we went

298
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,800
through the Facebook group.
So this is, you know, before

299
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,560
TikTok and everything and we had
large groups taken down.

300
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,680
So we kind of felt defeated for
a little while.

301
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,840
So the fact that you guys have
kind of picked up on being loud

302
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,280
and proud to where we could take
a little bit of a mental health

303
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,800
break and come back.
We're grateful for that as well.

304
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,280
That's awesome.
Yeah, I've, I've definitely

305
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,040
heard stories about how some of
the advocates tickets from back

306
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,320
then, you know, there was a lot
of burnout.

307
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,080
Y'all worked so hard.
And I, I know Facebook has done

308
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,560
a lot against our community with
censorship, with taking sites

309
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,480
down.
When I, when I found Kratom in

310
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,080
early 2019, I found a very large
Facebook group and they were

311
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,360
very helpful for answering
questions for me and helping me

312
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,840
learn about the plant before I
actually started.

313
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,080
And then at one point it got
taken down.

314
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,360
Like it was like Facebook took
the whole thing down.

315
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,000
Like one day it was gone.
It's like, wait a minute, this

316
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,880
is my lifeline of learning about
this plan as I start this

317
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,120
journey.
And it was so frustrating.

318
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,440
But I've heard a lot of stories
that Facebook, you know, had

319
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,560
been doing it for years and
making it very difficult.

320
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,000
And here we are in 2025.
And I'm sure you heard they took

321
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,800
down the American Crane
Association's Facebook page.

322
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,520
They've not been able to get it
back up.

323
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,920
They've talked to the people at
Meta and they're just not doing

324
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,640
it.
And they're making it so much

325
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,160
harder for our advocacy efforts
because we can't even search the

326
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,560
word kratom on the search in
Facebook.

327
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,240
So we can't even find when
different communities are taking

328
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,840
legislative actions and possible
bands right, making it so hard

329
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,480
to advocate.
Definitely, yeah.

330
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,560
And honestly, it was Facebook
and Kratom and like all the

331
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,600
knowledge that was on there was
just the best until I want to

332
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,720
say like late 2018 going into
2019, it was like everything

333
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,840
flipped.
I mean, we had had some issues

334
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,000
in the past, but as long as we
were changing up our spellings

335
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,240
or not making medical claims or
anything like that, or putting a

336
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,600
disclaimer saying this is our
personal experience, they seem

337
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,960
to be OK with it.
But something, I don't know what

338
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,960
it was, but late 2018 going into
2019, it was like boom, take it

339
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,440
away.
And so we had to make everything

340
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,560
private and there was this
really, I don't know if this was

341
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,280
the same group you were a part
of, but there was a group, It

342
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,560
was the largest kratom group
that I knew of on Facebook.

343
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,240
It was called, well, when I
first joined it, it was called

344
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,760
kratom new and current users.
Then it became an issue having

345
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,080
kratom in the name.
So then it was like new and

346
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,680
current users.
Well, then that became an issue

347
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,120
and eventually it got down to
the point where this large

348
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,079
30,000 people group, which is a
large Facebook group, had to be

349
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,400
called NACU.
Nacu, which stood for new and

350
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,440
current users.
But people that are new aren't

351
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,640
going to know that unless
someone tells them.

352
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,880
And it was just, there was so
many.

353
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,040
And that was actually the group
that I had documented my

354
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,000
pregnancy through because I was
pregnant mid 2017 all the way up

355
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,599
until February 2018.
And it was, it was really cool.

356
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,280
Like I would post updates about
me, about the baby.

357
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,160
We even nicknamed my son baby
Naku.

358
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,640
Like it was great.
And I think it was mid 2019 they

359
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,480
had, they had already suspended
that Group A couple of times,

360
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,200
but they went through fix some
things and it would come back up

361
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,440
mid 2019.
That group was permanently

362
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,360
deleted.
So all of my documentation, like

363
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:51,240
my birth story, everything was
just wiped.

364
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,240
I and I didn't know that it was
going to happen or I would have

365
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,280
went and grabbed all that stuff.
I mean, there was a secondary

366
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,600
group where some of my stuff
still is and I can grab a few

367
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,840
things, but it's not, it's not
the same, you know?

368
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,040
Wow.
Yeah, and you don't think that

369
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,920
social media stuff's going to go
away?

370
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,280
Right.
You know, just like we're still

371
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,440
under threat with TikTok, it
could still go away.

372
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,040
And there's a very good chance
it could.

373
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,080
And so many of us have put so
much effort and have so many

374
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,160
great videos helping people,
kratom, and it could all just go

375
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,040
away.
It's very frustrating.

376
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,280
Facebook and TikTok.
And because of these

377
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,960
restrictions on Facebook and
TikTok is why a year ago, I

378
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,600
started my own private online
community separate from social

379
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,120
medias called Kratom Real Talk.
And so is kratomrealtalk.com is

380
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,040
free.
It's something that I set up.

381
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,440
I've been teaching social media
for like 20 years now.

382
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:46,000
And I know a lot when it comes
to ways of bringing people

383
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,440
together in communities, in
social media, but also separate

384
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,400
from social media.
And I realized like we got to

385
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,000
have a place where we can go
where you don't have a

386
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,000
billionaire owning it and
censoring us, where you don't

387
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,400
have an algorithm controlling
who sees what.

388
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,040
So I set this up
kratomrealtalk.com and I keep it

389
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,560
free.
I pay for it, but because I pay

390
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,960
for it, I have all the control.
So there's no, there's no

391
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,680
censoring.
And I want to be free for

392
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,760
everyone.
And for me, it's, it's worth

393
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,520
having a separate place we can
go, not to take away from social

394
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,160
media.
Social media is very powerful.

395
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,120
And it's because of that we met
and so many people I've met in

396
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:24,080
our community has been from
social media.

397
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,320
But just know that we have
another place where we can hang

398
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,040
out where like you could put
your information in there like

399
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,600
when documenting something and
it's not going to go away.

400
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,360
So.
It might start transferring my

401
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:37,440
stuff over.
There as a matter of fact, it's

402
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,520
giving me ideas like I have like
a whole classroom section and I

403
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,720
have like a whole bunch of
information for people new to

404
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,000
create them and we should talk
about it separately from this

405
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,640
where maybe we can get some of
your information on kratom with

406
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,080
pregnancy could probably help a
lot of people and we could put

407
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,280
some information on there in the
classroom section.

408
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,120
I think that would you want to
talk about that on the podcast.

409
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:00,760
I mean, you know, every once in
a while somebody will ask about

410
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,640
kratom and pregnancy and.
I know there's a Facebook group

411
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,680
for it, although it might not be
available now with everything

412
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,280
happening at Facebook, but it's
not something we hear about

413
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,960
much.
I do know of some people who use

414
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,320
kratom during pregnancy, they
had no issues at all, but people

415
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,600
don't talk about it very much.
And that's, I noticed that when

416
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,480
I was going through my pregnancy
and I think I took a big risk

417
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,280
talking about it, but in my
mind, and I'm still very

418
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,720
comfortable talking about it.
There was, you know, when I

419
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,360
worked for the vendors, I've
worked for two different

420
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,480
vendors.
I didn't talk about it as much

421
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,200
just because I don't want to get
them in trouble in some way.

422
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,560
But as far as like me
personally, even when people

423
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,320
have personally attacked me for
doing so, I know my body.

424
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,640
I know what I was having to use
before I got pregnant and I just

425
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,480
wasn't comfortable continuing
using all those pharmaceuticals

426
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,400
during my pregnancy.
And so I chose some natural

427
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,120
alternatives.
And I mean, as far as like my

428
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,280
experience goes, I had
absolutely no issues.

429
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,120
And honestly, my second
pregnancy was so much easier

430
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,880
than my first pregnancy.
So just saying.

431
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,160
Yeah, well, I I've heard from
people that said that they did

432
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,480
just fine with it and then they
did not want to take

433
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,320
pharmaceuticals, that this was a
much better alternative.

434
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,720
But then you hear stories of,
oh, a baby born addicted to

435
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,480
kratom, if you heard about that.
I mean, we've seen that come up

436
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,160
from time to time with these
kratom hearings where they want

437
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,280
to ban it.
I have, but it's I'm a part of

438
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,520
the Facebook.
Well, one of the Facebook

439
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:31,920
groups.
There might be more, but I'm a

440
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,240
part of one of the Facebook
groups that is for mothers and

441
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,160
pregnant women, you know, who
are looking at using kratom or

442
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,720
maybe even trying to stop it,
you know, as they go into their

443
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,200
pregnancy, whatever their choice
is.

444
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,880
Now, that group has not accepted
new members for a while because

445
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,000
of all the Facebook stuff going
on and everything.

446
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,760
But if somebody would like to
reach out to me because they

447
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,160
have questions and they really
need to get in, I can.

448
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,280
I have been able to get a couple
people into the group since

449
00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:59,800
they've stopped accepting new
members.

450
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,400
As long, as, you know, we know
that they're real people and

451
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,640
they're actually going through,
you know, where they're not just

452
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,720
somebody trying to infiltrate or
anything like that.

453
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,800
We can usually, you know, make
sure that they get in and have

454
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,080
those resources.
But from my experience reading

455
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,480
the stories about people who
have had babies who have had

456
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,760
issues after they use kratom,
they did not entirely, only

457
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,520
either one or two things.
Either they didn't just use

458
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:30,120
kratom or they got clean during
their pregnancy and moved on to

459
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,240
so there was other substances
involved at first.

460
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,200
I've never seen somebody who has
just chosen to use kratom during

461
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,760
pregnancy that was lab tested,
unadulterated, and had any

462
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,880
issues at all.
I haven't seen that personally.

463
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,960
Right, and now these days we
keep hearing about these seven

464
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,160
OH, products that are incredibly
potent.

465
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,800
The researchers saying it's more
like an opioid.

466
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,400
And so I imagine if somebody
who's pregnant is using those,

467
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,320
that could be an issue when
their baby is born.

468
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,840
But they all view it as kratom.
They think kratom is kratom is

469
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,920
kratom and it's not.
It's incredibly, it's

470
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,120
frustrating because you got
kratom powder, you got kratom

471
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,760
extracts, and now these seven,
OH, and they're all different.

472
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080
And the liquids too.
I mean I've had I've had tons of

473
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,960
experience with kratom but I
have also had a few liquid

474
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,040
extracts in the past that have
kicked my butt and I don't think

475
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,600
they need to be selling those as
one serving at all.

476
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,200
Well yeah, it's crazy how most
of them are multiple servings.

477
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,240
Like they're these little
bottles with like 3 servings.

478
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,960
Some of them are 10 servings.
I think if X tracks are are

479
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:35,640
available to purchase, they
should be single serving

480
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,160
bottles.
I agree minimum they should be

481
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,880
that and that would really make
us so that's not such a problem.

482
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,440
But I've yet to talk to anybody
who overused those extract a

483
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,680
little bottles and said oh I
did.

484
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,200
I didn't like they all say the
same thing.

485
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,600
I didn't realize it was like not
single serving.

486
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,240
They say that they didn't
realize or they say.

487
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,280
They did.
They did not because they said

488
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,400
they don't.
Read the bottle because.

489
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,360
Because so many times they're
like, I'm just slamming the

490
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,880
whole thing and I like how I
feel sense.

491
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,000
So now drink another one.
Like it's like, yeah, but if you

492
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,360
look at the bottle, did you ever
notice it's multiple servings,

493
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,800
right?
And realize that many times it's

494
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,720
a it's one that's three servings
or 10 servings.

495
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,160
And how?
Because.

496
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,920
Those of us that have experience
with kratom, we know that there

497
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,080
are vendors out there that will
sell products that are, you

498
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,560
know, considered more than one
serving.

499
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,440
But I think a lot of people that
aren't in the kratom community

500
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,880
online, whether it's TikTok,
Facebook, maybe that I mean,

501
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,360
they just don't think about
that.

502
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:32,080
And I could see how that could
easily happen.

503
00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:36,240
Well, so many times I think you
get people who are chasing

504
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,120
something they hear about, like
chasing a high, they hear about

505
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,520
kratom.
It's easy to access.

506
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,760
Oh, let me just try this.
And they're not educating

507
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,800
themselves so they don't even
know what it is.

508
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,400
And I can't tell you how many
people are commenting in my

509
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,880
TikTok saying, what about these
70?

510
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,320
I don't like how this makes me
feel.

511
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:55,920
And I feel like I'm addicted to
it.

512
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,440
I'm like, well, it's technically
not kratom and you need to stay

513
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,680
away from those.
And it's like, you need to learn

514
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,840
what you know, learn about what
you're consuming.

515
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,280
But a lot of people just don't
just consume whatever.

516
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,120
And that's why I'm always
putting out a ton of

517
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,400
information.
I want people to educate.

518
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,080
I mean, I spent two months
educating myself on kratom to

519
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,440
learn about it before I actually
took the plunge.

520
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,640
I just want to make sure I
understood what I was consuming.

521
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,880
But a lot of people just dive
right in.

522
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,560
Yeah, I was one of those people,
so I get it.

523
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,240
Yeah, yeah.
And that's OK.

524
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,200
It's just figuring out like how
it can work for you, but it also

525
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,160
effects everybody differently.
True.

526
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,000
You know, And like from your
story, first time you tried it,

527
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,240
didn't, you know, didn't really
know what to do, didn't really

528
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,480
do much.
But great how the second time

529
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,040
around, a few years later, it's
been working so well for you.

530
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,400
So going back to that, when it
started working really well for

531
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,440
you, like what benefits were you
experiencing from using kratom,

532
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,120
you know?
I guess the easiest way to

533
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:59,040
explain it was, well, first of
all, I am a just straight up

534
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,920
tired mom all the time, so I'm
always looking for something

535
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,160
that gives me energy.
That's actually what kind of got

536
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,640
me into the stuff that I
shouldn't have been into to

537
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,040
begin with.
I tried out the opiates and

538
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,640
weirdly enough, at first it
energized me.

539
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,320
I mean further down the line
that it didn't happen that way,

540
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,680
but I was always looking for
something that was energizing.

541
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,160
So it did that, but it also
helped my mood as well.

542
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,720
And I had tried so many like
antidepressants and anxiety

543
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,480
medications and just mood
altering substances prescribed

544
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,280
to me and nothing had ever hit
me like that before.

545
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,280
And I'm not saying that it gets
me like that every time now, but

546
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,840
it was just, I think that's it
was like the light bulb went off

547
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,440
in my head.
I was like, holy crap, I can be

548
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,880
happy.
And it just it because I was

549
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,040
going through a really, really
rough time at the at the time.

550
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,400
So it was just, I think I would
like to think that I attribute

551
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,040
me getting through my separation
and reconciling with my husband

552
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,360
from finding kratom and finding
what worked for me as far as

553
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,160
using it and what kinds and all
that.

554
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,360
Yeah, and how did it end up
impacting your daily life and

555
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:12,320
just your overall well-being?
Well, I no longer cried before

556
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,160
getting up and going to work.
But the cool thing about it was

557
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,960
is that I didn't dread like big,
big tasks because I I deal with

558
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,200
all I I have anxiety disorder
like I am anxious all the time

559
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,520
and kratom kind of helps me
tackle tasks that without it,

560
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,480
I'm usually like dreading or
procrastinating or something

561
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,920
like that.
Now I will say this, it didn't

562
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,440
have the most positive effect on
my life as far as like outside

563
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,720
it influences.
I loved it.

564
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,760
It was working great for me,
great effects.

565
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,960
But then, you know, and I'm sure
a lot of people go through this,

566
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,040
once your family realizes that
you're taking it, they want to

567
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,320
Google it and Googling it is not
always, you know, the first

568
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,440
couple of things that come up
are not always, you know,

569
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,080
correct information.
There's a lot of misinformation

570
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,960
out there.
So I was actually fighting and

571
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,960
arguing with my father-in-law
and my husband for a good year

572
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,960
and a half to two years just to
be able to use the plant.

573
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,880
So like I was, it was great for
me, but my family was very

574
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,480
worried about it.
And so it even got to the point

575
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,600
where I had to go get like APO
box because they didn't want it

576
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,440
sent to the house and that kind
of thing.

577
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,920
Now they have sense, you know,
it's much different now.

578
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,840
I mean, I've worked in the
industry before, I've gone to

579
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,480
like trade shows and things like
that.

580
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,880
They don't judge it at all
anymore.

581
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,080
But it definitely the first
couple of years that was a an

582
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,240
issue that we kind of had to
navigate as well.

583
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Well, especially when there
wasn't nearly as much

584
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,240
information available about
kratom back then and you had the

585
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,760
government trying to ban it.
You know, I'm sure that didn't

586
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,800
help.
But that all that was going on

587
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,760
when you, like, rediscovered
kratom that second time around,

588
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,480
'cause I'm sure Google, I
couldn't imagine would be like

589
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,280
Googling in 2016 with when you
got the FDA and the CDC actively

590
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,920
trying to ban it.
Yeah, there.

591
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,720
Was a lot of Scott Gottlieb
stuff that popped.

592
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,640
Up.
Oh yeah, he was.

593
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,000
You know, from what I've
learned, he was very active on

594
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,360
Twitter, anti freedom all over
the place on Twitter with it

595
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,600
back then.
Wow.

596
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,400
It's amazing how much is the
whole narrative has changed all

597
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,960
these years later that people
more and more people are using

598
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,960
it in the US People see the
benefits.

599
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,200
They're telling people about how
much this plant has changed

600
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,000
their lives.
And it's so interesting that the

601
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,200
FDA, who's been so anti kratom
for so long, I don't know if you

602
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,720
heard this like a year ago they
released some information, not

603
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,600
to the public yet, but Kratom
symposium.

604
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,520
Last year they released
information from a single dose

605
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,320
study they did where they
thought people were just going

606
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:48,080
to like have severe reaction to
kratom and the craziest thing

607
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,880
they did was give people 12
grams in a 5 minute period of

608
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,000
capsules.
Kratom capsules 12 grams.

609
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,640
Of.
In 5 minutes, which I think

610
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,240
would make anybody make me throw
up.

611
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,200
The worst had happened were were
a couple participants got

612
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,200
nauseous like that was it and.
Capsules, they don't break open

613
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,560
all at once.
Yeah, they're not even it's.

614
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,280
That's not a very good study at
all, you guys.

615
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,400
No, and you're going to be
nauseous from that many capsule

616
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:15,880
shells.
I mean, that would be yeah.

617
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,640
You know, with kratom is a
powder, right?

618
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,520
So trying to imagine 12 grams of
powder into capsules would be a

619
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:24,800
lot of capsules.
It's.

620
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,600
Like a whole bag honestly of
like a a small pack of that's

621
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,440
like 24 capsules, right?
Right, If they're half a gram,

622
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,960
if they're half a gram each,
that would it would be, it would

623
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,760
that would be a lot.
So it's like, I don't know what

624
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,680
they were thinking, but they
haven't formally published this

625
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,440
study on their site yet.
But when they I think they put

626
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,320
it off for so long because once
they do, they can't say that

627
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,920
kratom kills, that creative is
great because they did a study

628
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,040
that shows it's not dangerous.
Well, I think another reason why

629
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,160
the general consensus on kratom
is starting to shift as well is

630
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,680
because those of us that are
using it and have used it for a

631
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:07,080
few years, people that know us,
families, anybody that it's that

632
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,240
surrounds us that does not use
this plant is seeing that it's

633
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,840
not having some crazy negative
effect like they try to portray

634
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,240
it as.
So, you know, you've got, well,

635
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,920
I mean, you started in 2019, so
that's six years I started it.

636
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,240
Well, technically, I mean, I've
found it in 2015, but let's say

637
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,040
26, that's nine years.
And if it was as bad as they try

638
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,120
to make it out to be, would we
still be here?

639
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,800
No, I don't think so.
And they say that there's

640
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,640
millions and millions of us in
the US that consume it.

641
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,800
So it's like, OK, if millions of
us use it and it's dangerous,

642
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,040
you would think there'd be 10s
of thousands of deaths, right?

643
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,440
I mean, that's that's still just
taking a small because they

644
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,720
think it's up to 20 million
people in the US.

645
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,720
So if you just take a tiny, tiny
percentage, that would still be

646
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,360
like what, 10,000 deaths a year
easily maybe 20,000.

647
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,560
And the most you hear is a few,
but it's usually Poly drug use.

648
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,600
Yep, which is not just kratom,
but with these seven OH

649
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,400
products, like it could end up
being more of an issue because

650
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,360
those are so incredibly potent.
And it's just so frustrating how

651
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,920
like the the FDA is not they're
not doing anything about those.

652
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,320
They they're trying to portray
it as similar to what we're

653
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,440
already talking about that I
agree as well.

654
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,720
I think that it should be.
We should really be spreading

655
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,000
the awareness that that is not
kratom.

656
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,320
When I talk about kratom and me
using Kratom, I'm meaning like

657
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,880
pure unadulterated.
And then I try to say

658
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,440
unadulterated quite often
because the seven OH products

659
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,840
that's adulterated kratom right
there, and that's just not

660
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,320
something that I would want to
promote.

661
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Now I'm all right with like
capsules, you know, that kind of

662
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,400
thing or like flavored kratom
powder.

663
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,640
That's cool with me too.
But seven OH is I've not tried

664
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,640
it and I don't plan on trying it
because I know from experience

665
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,560
that I need to stay away from
things like that.

666
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,880
Well, and you got Doctor
McCurdy, I'm sure you're

667
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,360
familiar with him.
He's one of the leading

668
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,640
researchers in the world when it
comes to crate up.

669
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,640
And he, him and other
researchers, Dr. Kirsten Smith,

670
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,880
they've been sounding the alarm
on 70 H, They have been studying

671
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,480
it and they're telling us there
are compounds in the 70 H

672
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,040
products that they can't even
identify.

673
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,680
And that's scary.
That's really scary.

674
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,400
So people really need to avoid
those products.

675
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,000
But there's the smoke shops are
pushing them.

676
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,840
I mean, we've seen so many
people in social media say the

677
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,960
smoke shops are just pushing it
on people to buy them.

678
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,080
The way that I see it, and this
is just from me working in the

679
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,320
industry, because I actually for
one of the vendors that I worked

680
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,040
for, I worked in the wholesale
department and I was the

681
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,280
wholesale sales specialist.
So I actually dealt a lot with

682
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,440
the head shops that were selling
kratom.

683
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,600
And The thing is, is a lot of
these head shop owners don't

684
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,120
realize what they're selling.
All they know is that it's

685
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,120
popular and it sells well and
people come back for more.

686
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,080
There's a lot of head shop and
vape shop owners out there that

687
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,120
don't really care about what
they're selling to their

688
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,960
customers as long as it makes
them money.

689
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,240
So my best advice is that if you
are going to a head shop or a

690
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,680
vape shop, because there are
reputable companies that sell

691
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,239
kratom and care about what
they're selling to their

692
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,199
customers.
Just have a, a talk with the,

693
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,080
you know, whether it's the owner
or you know, the just the

694
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,360
customer service Rep behind the
counter there.

695
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,040
But just ask them a couple
questions about the Kratom that

696
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,520
they're selling.
And at that point you can kind

697
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,440
of get a feel for if they care
or not.

698
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,960
And if they seemingly don't care
that I wouldn't purchase your

699
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,120
kratom there honestly.
Well, it's it's crazy how many

700
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,920
people I've talked to on social
media that say they bought it

701
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,239
from a smoke shop and the person
in the smoke shop didn't even

702
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,440
know anything about kratom.
They just point to it here.

703
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,600
You ask, It's about kratom, they
point to it.

704
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,639
A few people have said that
people were very knowledgeable

705
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,400
at the smoke shops.
Do you think that if any smoke

706
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,679
shop that sells kratom, if they
were just more educated and pass

707
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:57,960
it along to consumers, that we
wouldn't have as many issues

708
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,520
with it?
That people would understand the

709
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,880
plan and respect it more instead
of overusing it.

710
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,520
I do, and that's actually
another thing that I wanted to

711
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,680
talk about because as I was
working with a lot of these head

712
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,720
shop and vape shop owners, there
was a couple people or a couple

713
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,240
shops that did care and wanted
to know more and what I would

714
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:19,040
offer.
And I would not charge for this

715
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,000
at all.
I mean, I worked for the

716
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,360
company, but I wouldn't charge
extra for this or anything, but

717
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,000
I would offer them a Zoom
training and if I was local, I

718
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,680
would go in and do a demo.
I, I actually did that in

719
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,600
Florida a couple times that I
would offer a zoom training any

720
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,800
manager, any employee that they
had could hop on.

721
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,320
They could ask any questions
that they needed or, and I would

722
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,800
go through kind of like a kratom
one O 1 like this is what kratom

723
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,280
is.
This is where it comes from.

724
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,200
This is the colors.
And you know, here's the common

725
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,520
misinformation and then here's
what we like to say as far as

726
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,880
like a response to that.
And I will say that the

727
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,240
companies that did take me up on
doing the zoom training, they

728
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,640
became the kratom go to people
in that area basically like they

729
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,560
realized that this company cared
about the product, wanted to

730
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,880
know more about the product and
actually would ask their

731
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,240
customers, you know, does this
do for you so that I can go back

732
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,440
and talk to my company and order
the right product for you?

733
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,480
That makes a huge difference.
Wow, that's awesome that you did

734
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,320
that for those companies and
that you would offer to help and

735
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,600
do that kind of training.
That is amazing.

736
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,880
And I'm sure they they got great
benefits from that.

737
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,320
And it's not surprising when
you're saying that, you know,

738
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,480
they became the go to for kratom
in their communities.

739
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,520
That's so great.
I think we just need more of

740
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,880
that, you know?
I'm actually wearing one of

741
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,600
their shirts right now.
What does it say?

742
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,200
It says friends.
It's a shop in Illinois that I

743
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,600
used to help out with, like
ordering kratom.

744
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,240
It's called friends in High
places.

745
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,520
I actually texted them before
because I was trying to figure

746
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,200
out like a shirt to wear that
was kratom.

747
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,800
But I didn't want to have like
the vendor names from the

748
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,720
vendors I worked at.
I was like, well, I'll wear your

749
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:58,000
shop shirt.
I texted them.

750
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,160
I was like, I'm just so let you
know you're going to see your

751
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,160
shirt in the video.
Awesome.

752
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,480
That is so cool.
Well, let's talk about your

753
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,560
experience working for kratom
vendors.

754
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,080
We're not going to be naming
names, but you in the past you

755
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,960
have worked for two different
kratom vendors.

756
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,000
How did that all come about?
So the first time it came about,

757
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,200
it's so funny because I kind of
put myself out there, took a

758
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,600
little bit of a chance.
I started working for the first

759
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,320
kratom vendor that I worked for
in April of 2018.

760
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,000
My son was born in February of
2018.

761
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,840
I really needed to work, but I
didn't want to work in anything

762
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,960
that I didn't have a passion for
and I also needed to work from

763
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,680
home.
So I reached out to the company

764
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,800
and they were actually fairly
new online and I said, hey, you

765
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,360
know, this is who I am.
I sent him a couple of the links

766
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,000
of the stuff that I had wrote
online or, you know, videos I

767
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,960
had made online.
I said, this is what I do.

768
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,360
If you need any help as far as
like just anything, you know,

769
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,720
working, let me know.
And so he actually got back to

770
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:58,480
me within a couple of days and
he was starting like an online

771
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,920
call center.
And so that's what I started

772
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,160
doing is I started answering the
phone, taking orders and

773
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,720
answering questions.
And then eventually he had like

774
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:09,760
a chat that he had on his
website.

775
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,680
So we would answer questions
there.

776
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,720
And it just, it was perfect for
me because I talked about kratom

777
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,840
all day anyway.
Might as well help people on

778
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,400
doing so.
You know, it was really good at

779
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,520
first.
I will say that.

780
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,400
That's so cool.
So I imagine that just was a

781
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,720
cool job to have because you're
a kratom consumer, you're

782
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,480
obviously passionate, you're
educated on it, passionate about

783
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,640
it, and now you have a way to
help educate more people through

784
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,040
through the company that is so
cool.

785
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,280
So what's it like working for
kratom company?

786
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,120
Seems like it'd be really cool.
You know, for those of us that

787
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,240
are consumers like, you know,
something we that helps us

788
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,400
tremendously.
We love this product and to be

789
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,680
able to work for a company that
that's what they provide to the

790
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:53,080
world.
Well.

791
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,200
I will say this, I enjoyed my
entire tenure through working in

792
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,480
the kratom industry.
I met a lot of great people, Co

793
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,320
workers, especially the
customers, not just the

794
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,640
wholesale customers, but I also
met the retail customers, not in

795
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,800
person but we talked online or
over the phone and things like

796
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,440
that and that was probably the
absolute best part of the job.

797
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,160
The only thing is I worked
remote that entire time, so I

798
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,520
wasn't working in, you know, I
wasn't working in the warehouse

799
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,680
or working in there where they
did manufacturing or anything

800
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,040
like that.
And I feel like I probably would

801
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,200
have liked that a lot more if I
could actually go there and be

802
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,520
there every day.
But for the second kratom vendor

803
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,320
that I worked for, I worked
remote most of the time, but I

804
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,320
did travel to their warehouse a
few times and that was always

805
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,640
really cool because you could
see, you know, just the wall to

806
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,520
wall kratom packages from
Indonesia, you know, the plastic

807
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,400
wrapped ones.
We've all seen them online.

808
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,480
But just to see it in that
capacity was really cool.

809
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,600
And then just figure out, you
know, the process of like

810
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,040
importing it and then getting it
bagged up and the just all of

811
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,600
that that went into it was
really fun to learn about.

812
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,280
I had a really good time doing
that.

813
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,080
And it got to the point where we
would sometimes film videos in

814
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,000
the warehouse and that was
always really cool too because

815
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,080
people love the behind the
scenes stuff.

816
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,640
And I always, I loved it too.
I was just as excited to be

817
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,960
there as they would be to
actually watch the video.

818
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Like it was a big deal to me
too.

819
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,520
So it was kind of cool to share
the excitement.

820
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,720
I love all that behind the
scenes stuff and seeing it, you

821
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:31,240
know, being manufactured and all
when we do our Kratom gals live

822
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:34,600
stream on Saturdays, whenever I
come across some behind the

823
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,320
scenes videos from a kratom
company or manufacturer,

824
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,200
especially the ones, well
actually in Southeast Asia where

825
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,280
you got the farmers picking it
and then, you know, doing the

826
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,120
manufacturing stuff before it
gets shipped out to the US.

827
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,240
It's fascinating because we
don't really think about this

828
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,240
came from a leaf off of a tree
halfway around the world.

829
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,840
And it's so cool just seeing
like how this all happens and

830
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,400
how it comes here.
And then you got the

831
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,680
manufacturing company here and
all the stuff they do before it

832
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,880
ends up where you can actually
purchase it.

833
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,920
You get your bag of kratom.
It is.

834
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,560
It's really cool.
Yeah.

835
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,640
So let's go back up a little
bit.

836
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,160
When you're talking about as a
kratom consumer, is this

837
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,360
something you're consuming
currently every day or how often

838
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,080
are you consuming kratom?
So when I worked in the

839
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,080
industry, I would say it was
pretty much every day.

840
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,800
I mean, there were some days I
would go in between, but I was

841
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,080
busy reviewing things or doing
live streams, talking about new

842
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,840
products.
So it was something that I took

843
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,480
almost every day, not because I
felt like I had to, but just

844
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,080
because I worked in the industry
and that was part of my job.

845
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,920
But ever since getting out of
working in the industry, which I

846
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,800
am still very much a fan of
kratom, I'm a huge advocate.

847
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,200
I'm never going to leave that
part of the community, but I now

848
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,960
work outside of the house and
I'm in a completely different

849
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,040
industry.
So I have found that there are

850
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,360
some days where I just don't
even remember to take it.

851
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,320
So I would say probably 4 days
out of seven, I'll take it, but

852
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,680
it's just not something that is
like stuck on my brain all the

853
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,160
time because I'm not working in
the industry anymore.

854
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,280
Right.
And that makes perfect sense.

855
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,880
Do you have a preference on red,
green or white?

856
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,720
Or did do all the different
colors and strains work well on

857
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:18,040
you?
So I started out and it's always

858
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,200
going to have a soft place in my
heart is the white strains

859
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,320
because you know, me and I, I'd
love to have the energy, but I

860
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,120
actually prefer greens more now.
But I go through these body

861
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,040
chemistry changes where
sometimes whites don't work well

862
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,760
for me and Reds work a little
bit better.

863
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,440
So right now I'm kind of like in
a green and red and white.

864
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,240
So I'll either choose green or
choose like a red and white

865
00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:45,360
right now.
But I will say this, the red and

866
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,520
white that I currently use is.
You wouldn't be able to tell

867
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,280
that there's red in it.
Honestly, it feels more like

868
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,520
just a really powerful white and
I don't know how that works.

869
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,680
I don't know how it happens, but
basically anything that

870
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,480
energizes me is where I'm at.
Yeah, I just find it so

871
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,880
interesting because we're all
different with what we consume

872
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,360
and what works on us.
And like, whites just don't work

873
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,960
well on me.
They make me too jittery.

874
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,240
But I know plenty of people that
love the white kratom and that

875
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,240
it works so well for them.
But also, when I first started

876
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:19,480
kratom, everybody said that I
should start with red because I

877
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,000
was.
I suffer from chronic pain.

878
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,120
Everybody said, oh, red for
pain, red for pain, but Reds

879
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,440
don't really do much.
For me.

880
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,360
It was the green.
But you have to, like, go

881
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,120
through it to figure out what
works.

882
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,880
You know, you have to trial and
error and figuring it out.

883
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,160
So yeah, greens are my absolute
favorite.

884
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,760
I do really well with greens.
But I always love asking this

885
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,080
question when I do these
interviews because I just find

886
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,400
it fascinating how it really
shows how individualized this

887
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,600
plant is and how it affects
everybody differently and how we

888
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,120
all have different reasons for
consuming it.

889
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,600
And that kind of plays along
with it as well.

890
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,440
And it makes sense, you know,
trying to get more energy out of

891
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,120
it, you know, white strain would
work really well, but then also

892
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,000
doing really well with greens,
too.

893
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,520
Yeah, that's so cool.
So also it sounds like over the

894
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,280
years you've done a lot of
advocacy for especially being

895
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,040
when you were in the industry.
Are you actively doing much

896
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,600
advocacy on social media?
Do you still talk about kratom

897
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,800
much?
I definitely do.

898
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,760
I have always made sure even
after getting out of the

899
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,480
industry because there was a lot
of people.

900
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,280
I used to do a when I worked for
the last vendor I worked for in

901
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,280
their group because they have a
group on Facebook.

902
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,840
I was doing like a weekly live
stream and I was answering any

903
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,960
questions that they had.
Well, once I got out of the

904
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,080
industry, everybody was very
worried that they weren't going

905
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,800
to have access to the that kind
of information anymore.

906
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,120
And I made sure everyone knew
that they could reach out to me

907
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,720
as far as like any kratom
questions at all that they ever

908
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,440
have.
Now I can't answer, you know,

909
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,000
specific vendor questions or if
it's a product specific to that

910
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,720
vendor, I might not be able to
answer that.

911
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,560
But any kratom questions at all,
I'm always open to answering

912
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,280
those.
I will say this, there's I'm not

913
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,480
quite as open to as much as I
could say before after working

914
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,880
in the industry, there are a lot
of once you get out of the

915
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,960
industry, there are a lot of
things that sometimes you have

916
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,560
to sign and you can't always
talk about the details.

917
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,920
But I do as much advocacy as I
can legally at the moment.

918
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,200
So I'll make like kratom content
on TikTok, like comedy or I'll

919
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,440
even, you know, do like a kratom
one O 1 type of video.

920
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,720
I'm not as active as I used to
be, but that will slowly pick

921
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:27,520
back up.
I'm just kind of letting some

922
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,360
time pass before I get fully
back into it.

923
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,600
But I love that, you know,
you've you've been a passionate

924
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,400
advocate in the crime community
for a long time and that even

925
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,560
though you're not always
actively consuming it, you're

926
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,800
not working in the industry like
you were before, but you still

927
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,880
know the power of how advocacy
helps the whole entire

928
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,160
community.
It's great that that you still

929
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,200
do that in your social media.
And you had mentioned to me

930
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,040
before we started recording this
about like kratom comedy stuff.

931
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,440
So tell us a little bit about
what that is because I need to

932
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,080
like learn more about what you
are doing.

933
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,720
So for example, like this is
just an example, there was a

934
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:06,520
trending sound on TikTok where
the guy was like trying random

935
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,600
flavors and then you hear him
golf and he goes what the you

936
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,480
know.
And so I basically did a video

937
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,760
of me drinking from a teacup and
it was like first time tasting

938
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Kratom, you know, things like
that.

939
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,200
So I mean, you can love the
plant, but you can also admit

940
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,040
that it's not always the most
palatable and you can turn it

941
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,320
into jokes.
And I think that not only kind

942
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,960
of brings awareness to the
plant, but also kind of helps

943
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,680
people feel not, like, alone in
what they're experiencing with

944
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,760
the plant too.
Because like, yeah, it's a great

945
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,120
plant, but it doesn't taste
great, and that's OK.

946
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,280
Yeah, we all pretty much agree
it doesn't taste very good

947
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:42,640
except for.
Bud.

948
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,120
Except for Bud.
Bud loves his swamp water.

949
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,440
I don't know when I watch him
make his TikTok videos and he he

950
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,400
drinks a big huge thing and I'm
like how do you do that?

951
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,760
I just want to drink a little
bit really fast done and move

952
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,520
on.
But when you see him like fill

953
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,760
up like a whole like water
bottle full of kratom and water,

954
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,960
and then it's like, Oh my gosh,
that's a lot.

955
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,720
Yeah.
Yeah, which to me it's like,

956
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:09,640
well, you'll taste it even more
so.

957
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,240
Yeah, you think he doesn't?
He does.

958
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:15,960
I saw him do it in person in
Vegas last February and I was

959
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,920
like, Oh my gosh, there's no
cuts or anything.

960
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,800
He's really going.
Yeah, I was with him and Misty

961
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,240
Brown in Washington DC a year
ago and we were all taking a

962
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,480
break in between all the stuff
we were doing.

963
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,680
And funny enough, I was the only
one that had kratom on them.

964
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,120
It's like I was getting ready to
take some kratom because what

965
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,560
works for me with my chronic
pain is to take kratom every six

966
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,760
hours.
That's what works for me.

967
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,000
Everybody's different but so of
course I'm going to have it on

968
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,440
me.
And when we're taking this break

969
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,040
I'm coming up with my 6 hour
marks on.

970
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,040
And I remember Misty going you
have kratom and her and Bud you

971
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,680
have.
I'm like, of course I do.

972
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,120
So I'm like y'all want some?
So her and Bud decided to make a

973
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,960
video.
So yeah, I watched them do their

974
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,280
swamp water together and we
filmed it and it was so funny

975
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,120
because he's exactly the same in
person as, as you know, since

976
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,320
you've met him too, the same in
person as you see on TikTok

977
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,320
video.
Absolutely.

978
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,720
Yeah.
It was funny because as we left

979
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:11,720
Vegas that week, we got to the
airport at the end of the week

980
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:14,560
and he lives on the East Coast
too.

981
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,520
So our flight back to our
connecting flight, we had the

982
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,440
same flight and so we just hung
out for a little bit.

983
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,560
Yeah, Cuz he, I think he lives
in New York.

984
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,640
I live in Virginia.
So we were both flying back to

985
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,800
the East Coast to get our
connecting flights back home.

986
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,200
That was.
Funny seeing you here.

987
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:32,440
That is so awesome.
We just have so many cool people

988
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,960
in our community and and I'm so
glad that you came on to do this

989
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,560
podcast with me.
This has been such a great

990
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,760
discussion.
So the last question I have for

991
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,840
you, knowing everything you know
about and you know a lot because

992
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,000
you've been in this industry for
quite some time, what advice

993
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,000
would you give to someone to
help them get started in their

994
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,760
own freedom journey?
I would.

995
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,880
Say don't Google it.
I honestly I googled it you know

996
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,760
some at 1st and it just not only
that you'll get a lot of

997
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,080
misinformation, but you'll get a
lot of contradicting information

998
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,840
too and it becomes really
confusing.

999
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,280
I would go into the if you're
going to do it like on Facebook

1000
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,320
or something, go into the
private groups if you aren't

1001
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,480
sure where to go.
There are tons of people on

1002
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,000
Facebook and TikTok.
If you can just look up, you

1003
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,680
know, public posts, but
basically go to the stories and

1004
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,480
watch and read the posts of the
people that are actually using

1005
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:28,960
it.
It's not always going to be

1006
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,960
rainbows and sunshine either.
Like we give you the good, bad

1007
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,640
and the ugly, but it's
information that you need to

1008
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:39,560
know that won't be as confusing.
And then if you do have further

1009
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,600
questions about it there you go
to the American Kratom

1010
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,720
Association website.
They might not have their

1011
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:47,600
Facebook right now, but the
American Kratom Association

1012
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,880
website is really great for, you
know, it's got great kratom

1013
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,440
information, but it also lets
you know like updates on what's

1014
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,040
happening with like the
legislature as far as kratom

1015
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,880
goes, how you can help out with
that.

1016
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:02,120
But if you're trying to learn
about it, definitely speak with,

1017
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,880
watch and read from people that
have used it themselves because

1018
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,640
that's and it's not going to be
the same story every time

1019
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,840
either.
And that's what I think is going

1020
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,840
to help people figure out what
if it will work for them and

1021
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,720
what types and what kinds will
work for them as well.

1022
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,800
That's all such great advice.
Thank you so much, Stephanie Sue

1023
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,800
for coming on the podcast and
and sharing all of your great

1024
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,040
knowledge with us.
Oh, I loved it.

1025
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,440
I talk about it all day anyway,
so might as well hop on and

1026
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:36,120
share with other people too.
That's so great, thank you for

1027
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,520
listening.
You can get more information at

1028
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,400
kratomstoriespodcast.com,
including show notes from this

1029
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,000
episode.