Ep 66: From Touring Musician to Kratom Advocate, Jeremy Steding’s Powerful Transformation

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Anybody that knows kratom, which
I suppose most people on here

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know that the the effect is, is
not like alcohol at all, but

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there was just something that
settled down my brain and, and,

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and kind of settled down that
urge to, to have it.

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So I'm here with Jeremy Stunning
from 1836 Kratom, somebody in

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our community that y'all need to
know about.

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Jeremy, I'm so excited to have
you come on the Kratom Stories

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podcast to share your personal
story with kratom, your advocacy

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work, and what you're doing with
your own kratom business.

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So welcome.
Sure.

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Thank you so much.
I'm grateful to be here.

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I appreciate it.
Yeah, I, I'm so glad I, you

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know, I, I love connecting with
people in our community and

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having them share their stories.
It is so interesting how we all

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have our own personal journey
with Kratom, but we can all

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learn from each other, you know,
through that.

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And we get so many people that
listen to our episodes and just

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feel more connected to our
community and feeling less alone

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in their own kratom journey.
So I'm excited to hear your

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story and how you started.
So why don't you tell us a

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little bit about yourself and
life before creative?

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Yeah, sure.
So I grew up in Florida and

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moved to Texas in 2007, shortly
out of college to pursue a music

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career.
I was a big fan of the Texas

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artist guys like Robert Earl
Keen and Corey Morrow at the

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time.
And so moved out here, you know,

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started making albums.
We, we put out five studio

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albums.
We were touring all the time,

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you know, I was playing 200 plus
dates a year and really, really

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enjoyed that.
It was a lot of fun.

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Of course with performing like
that, you know, booze and

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alcohol go hand in hand.
It's just a big part of it.

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You know, everybody's partying.
And so that became, you know,

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somewhat problematic in my life,
just the, the amount of alcohol

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that I was consuming.
And my wife, Tiffany and I, we

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had our first son, who is almost
10 years old now.

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He was born in 2015.
And it was really just kind of

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synergistic.
I was in a little store by the

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house on Anderson Lane in
Austin, TX.

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And there was a product that's
still on the market that I won't

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call by name, but it's, it's
designed to look like

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prescription focus enhancing
medication.

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And I asked the proprietor, I
said, hey, man, you know what's

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up with that?
Is that, is that legit?

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And he said, well, no, man.
You know, it's he's like, those

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are your caffeine pills.
It's just branded like that.

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Now.
I've struggled with ADHD for my

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whole life.
It's been a thing growing up.

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I was raised in the Christian
Science church.

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So we did not get any medicine,
including like Advil, Tylenol,

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anything like that.
It's it's a religion that isn't

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super popular anymore, you know,
but anyhow, so so I've never had

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any kind of prescription or
anything.

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And he said, you know, if you're
looking for something for focus,

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I've got this tea, it's from
Thailand.

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He's like, I don't know a ton
about it, but people seem to

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really like it.
Now.

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This was just Kratom capsules,
bright green kratom, just, he

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just had it in a jar, you know,
and he said, here you go, here

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you go, man.
And he, he pulled me a few of

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them out.
He gave me about 10 capsules and

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he said, you know, you, you're
going to, he's like you, you

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probably want three to five of
them.

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He's like, it's just a leaf
ground up in there.

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And I tried it and it was
absolutely incredible.

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I was like, this is wonderful,
you know, and I was locked in.

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I was booking gigs that day,
which was most of my time at

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home and I was like, wow, this
is incredible.

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I wanted to learn about it.
And so I looked it up and

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everything that I saw, of
course, especially back then was

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pretty negative, pretty scary.
Kept talking to, you know, I

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kept seeing the word opiate and
I was like, that is, that's not

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what I had.
I was like, that doesn't make

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any sense.
What I had was something that

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really helped my focus.
Really.

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I wasn't tired.
I wasn't, you know, I was locked

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in and focused.
And so I started doing more

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research, ended up buying some
kratom from him.

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I started consuming it
regularly.

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Then I, you know, after a month
or couple months, I was like, I

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don't know, you know, because
everything that I read was, was

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really negative.
So stop taking it for a while,

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you know, and no issue or
anything with that.

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And I was like, well, you know,
I don't know.

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And it was around that time that
kratom advocacy was really

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starting to mobilize.
This is around 20/13/2014.

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And I found the American Kratom
Association and started reading

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about it, reading about
different perspectives on

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kratom.
And I was like, yeah, you know,

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this is, this is interesting.
And it was super helpful to me.

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So I started consuming kratom
again and I felt good about it.

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You know, I'd, I'd found places
where I can get a little more

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information, positive
information about it.

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And I was still playing music
full time as a career.

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I was also serving tables and
driving Lyft to make ends meet

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rideshare.
And anyhow, so my wife and I

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moved to Nashville in June of
2016 with the goal of pursuing A

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songwriting contract.
You know, most of the major

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artists, they don't write their
own songs.

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Teams of songwriters write
these.

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By the time that we we got to
Nashville, I was just kind of

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over it.
You know, we, we've been at it

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for a long time.
I had some success, which I'm

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super grateful for, but it was
just what it was going to be

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and, and I was over it, man.
So started thinking about what I

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wanted to do.
There was 1 pointed conversation

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between Tiffany and I.
We're in our apartment in

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Nashville.
And she said, hey, you know,

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you're not going to like this,
but you need to make some money.

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You know, the, the starving
artist thing is legit.

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It's real.
You know, it's, there's a

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pyramid and nobody except the
little tiny, very sharpest point

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in that pyramid is, is really
able to make a true living.

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And I said, no, you know, you're
right.

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And so I started thinking about
what I wanted to do, what I

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wanted to do with the rest of my
life.

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I was over music.
I was over being away from our

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one year old for the entire
weekend, coming home with, you

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know, 150 bucks in my pocket
after working for 3-4 days.

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Then I started thinking and, and
you know, I was like, well, what

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popped into my head was kratom.
I was like, you know, I, I love

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this.
I think it's really interesting,

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especially back then, so much of
the branding and marketing of it

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was so different than the way
that I really perceive kratom.

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It was branded and marketed like
drugs.

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You know, you got these crazy
psychedelic pictures and stuff,

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which is really out of line
with, with the way that kratom

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actually affects me at least,
you know, and I, the, the

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majority of people that I speak
to and of course, at that time,

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we're living in Nashville at the
time, Tennessee had a ban on

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kratom.
So I may or may not have driven

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up to Franklin, KY to purchase
kratom.

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And when I, when I first went
up, I was like, Oh my God, these

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prices are insane.
And so I started thinking, you

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know, I can, I can buy this at
what I know how to buy it for in

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Austin, which obviously wasn't
the right move.

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So for a period of time, I
linked up with an old friend and

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we started talking about it,
researching vendors, you know,

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just just kind of got lucky on a
guy that reached out from

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Facebook.
Which any of you that have ever

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posted the word kratom on
Facebook know what I'm talking

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about, man.
You know, I know that they've

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kind of restricted that
unfortunately now.

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But if you've ever posted the
word kratom, especially back

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then, you would have 25 people
from Indonesia asked if you

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wanted to buy crate them and we
ended up figuring one out.

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I did get AI ended up as we
decided to do the business.

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I got a storage unit and APO box
in Franklin, KY, So that would

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you know that would be the home
of it not in Nashville.

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And anyhow, so we found one that
works and it was like, OK, cool.

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So started just designing
packages using pit monkey and

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made our first kratom sale in
May of 2017 and then just

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started going from there.
You know we we had the storage

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unit which was a A5 by 10:00 and
had all the equipment.

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I would run things.
We are fully AKAGMP now.

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I would love for you to see the
factory, but at that time we

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were sealing bags off a car
battery because it was a storage

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unit, so it wasn't powered, but.
But yeah, anyhow, so it was just

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the the role that kratom had
played in my life and the

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improvements that that led me to
start the business.

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I know I'm kind of going around
the block to get back there, but

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I was talking about the alcohol
in the way that that goes along

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with with playing music for a
living.

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And it was Kratom when I decided
to take a long break.

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I will still have a drink now,
you know, but it's not common.

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It's social, you know, and it's
it's moderate like it like it

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really should be.
But but I decided that I need,

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you know, take a long break away
from alcohol and and Kratom was

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just really, really helpful for
me.

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Anybody that knows Kratom, which
I suppose most people on here

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know that the the effect is, is
not like alcohol at all, but

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there was just something that
settled down my brain and, and,

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and kind of settled down that
urge to to have it.

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And so, yeah, so, so it was
tremendously and helpful for me

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in both aspects.
It was helpful for, for focus

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and getting work done.
And then it was also incredibly

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helpful as I really, really, I
mean like 97% reduced alcohol

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consumption.
So, so it was all of that that

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that led me to to start the
business and we moved back to

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Austin from Nashville on
December 20th, 2017 was the day

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that I moved all our stuff back.
Tiffany and Jackson went down to

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Florida to be with our families
the exact day that I took

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everything back to Austin, TX.
Tennessee flipped the law on the

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exact day.
It was crazy, man.

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So December 20th, 2017,
Tennessee declared that kratom

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is in fact legal.
The law had been written, you

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know, for a synthetic.
And so it's just a strange turn

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of events, you know, and I'm
super happy that it worked out

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the way that it did.
But that happened two weeks

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earlier.
I probably would have said, hey,

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we got to stay here.
We've got this business started

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and whatnot.
But yeah, But yeah, yeah, pretty

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wild.
That that is why.

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What an interesting story.
Thank you for sharing all that.

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So when you first started Krana,
when you were in that shop, it

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was primarily just for the focus
like your, your intention was

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like, you know, this would help
for focus, not thinking about

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the whole alcohol aspect, right?
Not.

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At all?
Not at all.

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Yeah.
It's so interesting because so

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many people I've talked to on
social media or in person and

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here on the podcast, there've
been people that say they took

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it for whatever thing, whatever
specific thing, but then said

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like what you say, it really
helps me curb alcohol.

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Like it was like this secondary
thing they weren't expecting,

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but actually like that it helps
with that.

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You know, I had a lady I
interviewed recently and it it,

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it was to help her in her
recovery, but not specifically

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alcohol is for drugs.
But she said, you know, I've had

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some, you know, I've been
consuming Kratom a few months.

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I've had beer in my fridge all
this time.

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I don't want it.
It would never last that long

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normally, but I have no desire
to drink.

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And she was actually going to
just pour it out and she was not

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expecting that from kratom.
That which is just so amazing

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from your plant.
Yeah, it really, it really,

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really is incredible.
You know, and I've, I've been a

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consumer now for about 12 years
and the, the positives compared

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to negatives in my experience
have been just incredible.

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00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,080
You know, it's, it's been
wonderful for me, you know, and

221
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,280
I'm grateful now.
Right now I've been consuming a

222
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,440
little more Kratom.
I'm kind of going back down a

223
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,080
little bit.
Just went through a period of

224
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,800
real high stress getting ready
for this year and stuff.

225
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,480
But you know, I'll take usually
in the morning I'll take about 3

226
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,400
grams.
I've been consuming most mostly

227
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,040
our products.
So I've been drinking the the

228
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,960
Super fit in the morning, which
is our caffeinated kratom drink

229
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,920
that that we just came out with
this year.

230
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,160
And then throughout the day,
I'll do like 1/2 of one of our

231
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,960
lazy luaus or half of 1 of the
green beans go cherry limeades,

232
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,080
which is said the cherry limeade
is just a bright green kratom in

233
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,960
a cherry limeade.
And by the way, after this,

234
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,240
we'll get you, we'll send you
out some, some stuff, but but

235
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,280
I'll do like 1/2 of a lazy luao
or a lazy lemonade, which is a

236
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,080
Cava kratom ashwagandha.
And the the total in the full

237
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,560
bottle is 4G.
So I'll do about like 2G at a

238
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,080
time a few times throughout the
day because I like to just have

239
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,560
a, a small amount.
I don't like to consume too much

240
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,760
kratom because it makes me feel
kind of tired.

241
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,680
And yeah.
Yeah, and I'm sure being in the

242
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,600
kratom industry, you've probably
heard so many stories from

243
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:50,120
people of how kratom has helped
them for probably a a variety of

244
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,640
things.
I I think it's amazing that your

245
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,360
story of how you started your
kratom business and how you

246
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,000
you've done this.
I just, I find it fascinating,

247
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,920
but so do y'all have I know you
sell to like other like shops

248
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,120
around the country, but do you
actually have a storefront there

249
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,640
in Austin?
No, we don't have a storefront.

250
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,120
We have an online platform
that's that's ships from Austin,

251
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,880
which is mostly friends and
family and connections, but

252
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,720
that's 1836 fitness.com.
And so that does have all of our

253
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,480
products.
But yeah, we're, we're mostly

254
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:30,080
retail B2B.
We work with wonderful

255
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:35,320
distributors here in Austin,
Austin Wholesale supply And I, I

256
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,080
would guess that we're in
probably at least 1000 stores

257
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:44,400
now because we have about 400
direct customers and then the

258
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,280
the distributors send to a
massive amount of people.

259
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,000
But yeah, if you're looking, if
you are looking for a place to

260
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,680
find 1836 kratom, you can find
that on the website.

261
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,400
There's a stores near you tab
and that's got a map you can

262
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,920
enter your zip code.
That's not completely

263
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,320
comprehensive because we don't
know everybody that buys from

264
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,080
the distros.
And also soon on that we

265
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,960
launched in the summer, we
launched our trusted vendor

266
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,840
program for retailers that we
work with.

267
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,640
Of course, we're incredibly
grateful for for all of our

268
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:24,480
retailers, but we really, really
want to support those that seek

269
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,640
to educate the consumer, that
seek to transparently share

270
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,240
ethically present kratom and
take the time to really learn

271
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,160
about it and understand it
before doing so as opposed to

272
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,800
looking at it as just a way to
make a buck.

273
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,000
So we'll have that list up what
will be soon, but those are are

274
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,760
folks that have really gone the
extra mile to educate themselves

275
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,600
and their employees and such.
I love that.

276
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,280
What's so cool about your
website, Jeremy, is like how

277
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,480
you, you focus on educating
people that come to your site.

278
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,880
Many times vendors.
It's like, here's our products

279
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,160
and and maybe there's a blog,
maybe there's a little bit of

280
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,880
information about Kratom, but
you really go that extra mile.

281
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:12,880
You have an article on your site
says 770 H is not kratom.

282
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:18,160
I think you're the only kratom
company I've seen that has

283
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,319
posted something like that
because that 70 H is just, you

284
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,599
know, crazy stuff going on with
that because it's not

285
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,359
technically Kratom, but
everybody thinks it's kratom

286
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,640
because their packaging will say
and kratom on it.

287
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,360
And I'm going to link to all of
this with this podcast so people

288
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,120
can see.
And you also have an article

289
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,960
called are you sober?
And, and I just love that you're

290
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,120
using your site to help educate
people as a vendor, as a, as a

291
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,760
kratom company.
Yeah, absolutely.

292
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,480
And and I'll address those, I'll
compartmentalize them.

293
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,000
We'll talk about the are you
sober first?

294
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,000
So, you know, kratom's been
wonderful for me and it's been

295
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,440
wonderful for a lot of people.
And a lot of people have

296
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,040
expressed that has helped them
transition away from more

297
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,520
harmful substances.
The negative stories that I have

298
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:13,960
heard have mostly been from
people who did struggle with

299
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,920
addiction for many years and had
gotten completely clean.

300
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:24,360
We're not experiencing problems
and then have consume kratom and

301
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:30,200
it it just kind of triggered
that edge, you know, and so that

302
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,680
that is something to consider,
you know, if, if you are sober,

303
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,080
if you are living completely
clean, we just strongly suggest,

304
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,760
you know, do your research, know
yourself, do your research.

305
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,840
You know, I met a wonderful lady
the other day.

306
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,640
We were doing a small set up for
South by Southwest here in

307
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,960
Austin, TX, which if, if you
don't know what that is, it's a

308
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,720
massive music and arts festival.
But this woman was, that was a,

309
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,440
oh, a, a dental practitioner,
you know, and, and she had

310
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,040
struggled for many years, but
she does consume kratom and, and

311
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,760
she said that it's been
wonderful in her life and she

312
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,640
did begin consuming it after a
period of time.

313
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,200
I don't know, you know, it
wasn't the tool that she used to

314
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,920
A to adjust to a cleaner
lifestyle, but you know, she's

315
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,920
she's very happy with the choice
has been a kratom consumer for

316
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,120
years.
But you know that that is the

317
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:30,960
one group of people, you know,
in addition to obviously

318
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,480
children and if you're pregnant,
probably not.

319
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,480
But you know, just just do your
research, know yourself.

320
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:45,600
Second one being 7 OH 7 OH is
not kratom. 7 OH is not kratom.

321
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:52,880
7 OH is a metabolite.
It is primarily converted in the

322
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,800
body.
Once a person consumes the

323
00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:00,560
kratom plant, some of that
metrajenine is metabolized into

324
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,640
7 OH.
The seven OH is extremely

325
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,280
potent.
I read 20 times morphine.

326
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,880
The number is varied but it is
also it is always high

327
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,720
multiples.
My perspective is.

328
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,560
That our body has natural
defense mechanisms.

329
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:25,840
So people that are trying to
adjust to a healthier lifestyle

330
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,920
when they do consume kratom and
some of them metrajenine is

331
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,160
converted well, your body is
equipped with natural defense

332
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,040
mechanisms.
So when you're overriding those

333
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,560
you, you probably don't have the
same safety profile, you know,

334
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,080
and and the risk maybe maybe
quite a bit higher.

335
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:51,160
So at the very least, we, we
certainly recommend that the

336
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,120
people who are considering 7 OH,
do understand that it is very

337
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,640
different from kratom.
Many of the reasons that people

338
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:06,960
use kratom for seven OH may may
have the opposite effect.

339
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,440
So just something do your
research.

340
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,800
It is flying off the shelves
right now.

341
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:17,760
It is outrageously popular.
And you know, my my concern is

342
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,960
just that that people think,
wow, this is just kratom that

343
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,400
works so well.
I feel awesome.

344
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,440
But yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's really becoming

345
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,000
a problem in, you know, I have a
a kratom forum called Kratom

346
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,640
Real Talk and it's kind of like
a Facebook group of private that

347
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,520
that I run without the Facebook
censorship or the TikTok

348
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,800
censorship.
We run into I I have a long

349
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,760
history in digital marketing and
social media and it's like I'm

350
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,480
going to just create a platform
for us where we can have these

351
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,520
conversations and not worry
about all of those issues we run

352
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,120
into where we're being
suppressed just because we're

353
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,240
talking about a plant.
And I'm noticing more and more,

354
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,200
you know, people and on and on
my regular social media as well.

355
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,120
People are just yeah, I tried.
I take whole leaf Creighton

356
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,160
powder and it works great.
But you know, the smoke shops

357
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,560
are giving me free samples of
this new 7.

358
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,080
OH, and and not realizing that
technically it's not kratom.

359
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,360
The packaging says kratom and
I've had a handful of people

360
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:28,000
tell me that they have a hard
time stopping it once they start

361
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,200
using those products.
They're so strong that that is

362
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,240
helping with pain issues, but
when they try to wean down and

363
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,000
go back to their powder is not
working as well.

364
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,200
And they're actually having to
take, you know, a break like

365
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,840
several weeks of of not using
kratom to kind of get their body

366
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,240
readjusted.
And it's just, and actually with

367
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,000
my live stream series I host as
the Kratom gals, we had Doctor

368
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Christopher McCurdy on last week
chatting with us and he shared,

369
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,560
you know, a lot of information
about 7 OH for our community.

370
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,680
And it's just, it's sad that
they're being allowed to call it

371
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,240
kratom, but it's not technically
because of the way they're

372
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,640
synthesizing it.
My understanding, understanding

373
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,160
is they're taking what's already
a kratom extract, which is

374
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,280
strong and synthesizing it
further, like you said,

375
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,560
metabolite.
And, and now it's like super

376
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,960
potent.
And I don't know, people are

377
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,360
just telling me on social media,
Oh, I found this, this kratom,

378
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:31,080
this seven, OH, kratom.
And this is great.

379
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,440
Yeah.
And you know, when we talk about

380
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,880
that and people struggling to
get off of it, we also have to

381
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,720
consider how fast that happened
because this has been on the

382
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,720
market for less than a year.
You know, all kratom products

383
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:56,080
may be habit forming, but in my
experience, for it to become a

384
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,080
habit takes consistent use for a
period of time.

385
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:07,200
And Even so, you know, again, in
my experience, people, people

386
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,440
aren't breaking glass windows to
to go get their kratom powder.

387
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,440
And I've heard stories of that,
you know, of, of shops having

388
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,200
their windows smashed.
And so it's, it's a different

389
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,360
thing.
And what the future holds for

390
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,440
that, I don't know.
You know it, it could very well

391
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:33,880
have incredible potential in in
the medical world, but as far as

392
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,120
as being an over the counter
thing that that you can just

393
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:41,480
walk in and purchase as much as
you want, I don't know.

394
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,640
We'll see.
We'll see how it plays out.

395
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,480
It's it's certainly been a
challenging time for the kratom

396
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,880
industry and it's a challenging
time for consumers to you know,

397
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,440
who, who end up who, who don't
really know, You know, most, you

398
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,280
know, most of us just kind of go
in and, and trust the shop.

399
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,920
You know, I, I trust that this
is a soda water and it's, you

400
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,520
know, that the ingredients are
what they say.

401
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,440
And, you know, if if somebody,
you know, says, hey, we got this

402
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,600
great new kratom product and
you're like, whoa, yeah, I feel

403
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,360
awesome.
Yeah, It's a lot of that make

404
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,680
you feel awesome that you
probably shouldn't.

405
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,640
Right, right exactly.
Well, I just commend you for

406
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,000
having information about 7 OH on
your website to help educate

407
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000
people.
And I really wish that more

408
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,400
kratom companies would do that
to just help.

409
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,920
You know, people will so many
times tell me yeah, I heard

410
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,120
about kratom in a smoke shop.
They pointed to it and I just

411
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,120
tried it without even
researching it and learning

412
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,040
about what they're consuming a
lot.

413
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,080
I spent like 2 months
researching it and trying to

414
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,960
fully understand it and went on
Facebook groups trying to just

415
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,640
because I, I lost access to pain
management through no fault of

416
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,880
my own.
I didn't do anything to get in

417
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,440
trouble.
The doctors are scared to

418
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,360
prescribe and I was always
worried that that could happen

419
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,160
to me.
And then yeah, one day I get a

420
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,480
form letter in the mail from the
doctor's office, let me know

421
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,160
that they weren't going to be
prescribing anymore.

422
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,000
But they gave me enough to last
a little bit of time and I was

423
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,840
like, OK, I'll find another
doctor.

424
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,680
No other doctor would take over.
So I just went to research mode

425
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,840
and in 2019, early 2019, there
wasn't nearly as much

426
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,120
information as there is now, but
there was, you know, a decent

427
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,520
amount, a lot of misinformation
to propaganda though.

428
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:37,520
But I imagine when you started,
which was a lot earlier back,

429
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,320
that it was probably not you.
I think you said there wasn't

430
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,000
very much information back then.
Hardly.

431
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:50,800
Anything this is is 1314 when I
found it I think was shortly

432
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:57,640
before it had had gone on the
FDA drug of concern list.

433
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:04,560
This is years before 2016 when
when the ban was supposed to

434
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,600
happen and did not happen, thank
God.

435
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:15,760
But yeah, so so there was very
little information and you know,

436
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:20,760
not much positive or negative.
A few scare pieces from local

437
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,920
media, but beyond that, not
much.

438
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,880
Yeah.
So super grateful for all of the

439
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,640
research that has been done over
the last 1012 years.

440
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,200
Of course, super grateful for
Doctor McCurdy, Doctor Jack

441
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,120
Henningfield and Laura Volkoff
and and that whole crew.

442
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,040
Kirsten Doctor Kirsten Smith,
especially because she's super

443
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,360
cool too.
She is cool.

444
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,040
They're all cool.
But yeah, she's super cool.

445
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:51,720
Yeah, but you know, the very
grateful for all of the work

446
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:57,560
that they've done and just it's
it's that science and that that

447
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,240
has allowed kratom to stay
legal.

448
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,720
And you know, I I hope we'll
continue like the AKA says to

449
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,000
follow the science and the
science on seven O 8 is

450
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,400
different than the science on
kratom.

451
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,120
It just simply is.
So you know.

452
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:13,080
Yeah.
It really is.

453
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,560
And you're really big with
advocacy, which I also like

454
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,960
applaud you for because, you
know, not a whole lot of

455
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,680
manufacturers and vendors, you
know, I don't see them going to

456
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,120
Washington, DC and doing
speaking out and going to their

457
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,800
state capital.
You you do a lot as a kratom,

458
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,720
you know, not just as a kratom
company, but as a kratom

459
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520
advocate.
You know, we were in both in

460
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,720
Washington DC Gosh, that was
like what a year and a half ago,

461
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,040
2020, That was December 2023, I
think.

462
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,200
But you were also at other, I
know there was like another

463
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,520
ones.
I remember we played it on the

464
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,680
Kratom gals and saw you there.
I believe it was the DC1 just

465
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,600
this past year.
Yeah, there was a congressional

466
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,920
briefing on kratom in DC this
past year.

467
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,640
Yeah, a team of us went over to
Indonesia.

468
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,720
That was really fun because
there was about, oh, about 15,

469
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,560
20 of us Americans that that
went over and, and talked about,

470
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,120
you know, their, their protocol,
their export protocol and

471
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,360
positive changes that are being
made over there and just kind of

472
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,040
tweaking it to make sure that it
works for everybody.

473
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,400
And there's still work to do.
But it's just wonderful that now

474
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,280
we're making progress.
So, yeah, you know, I've been an

475
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,880
advocate since day one.
We were, I was personally

476
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,200
donating a little bit to the AKA
before even starting.

477
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,320
And yeah, you know, I'm, I'm
very grateful for for that

478
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,720
advocacy and then the groups
that are sharing that science

479
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,840
and keeping consumer
accessibility to this.

480
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,760
Absolutely.
Well, yeah, I discovered the

481
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560
American Krame Association very
early on in my kratom journey,

482
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,080
and I was so glad I found out.
I just remember finding it

483
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,000
online randomly.
And so I I signed up for their

484
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,840
newsletter, donated some money,
and I was like, getting these

485
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,680
emails.
I'm like, Oh my gosh, I had no

486
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,560
idea.
There were all these, like,

487
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,360
potential bands that were
cropping up around the country.

488
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,840
You know, I'm thinking, you
know, I'm in Texas.

489
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,440
I can get access, you know, but
reading about all the

490
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,520
information they would put out
and I remember getting emails

491
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,040
like all the time.
I'm like, wow, I had no idea

492
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,360
that, you know, cuz the whole
2000, even though I did not

493
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,680
start till 2019 when I learned
about what happened 2016 where

494
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,440
they were trying to ban it, I
saw the documentary A leap of

495
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,720
faith.
That's what I, that's how I

496
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,360
first learned about kratom was
that documentary on Netflix back

497
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,560
then.
And when it came out and I was

498
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,840
like, what there's a plant that
can help with pain?

499
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,880
And then seeing, you know,
advocates in DC, that whole

500
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,320
segment was like, wow, well,
this is wild.

501
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,360
I had no, I didn't even know
about this part.

502
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,840
And then the government wants to
try to ban it.

503
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,760
But all these people, you know,
protested and wrote in and and

504
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,520
they changed their mind.
I'm like, what?

505
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,880
That's amazing.
The only.

506
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,360
Time that has ever happened to
by the way, for for those that

507
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,480
aren't familiar, the DEA issued
an intent to schedule of kratom.

508
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,400
A period of public comment was
opened and over 100,000 people

509
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,640
signed a petition, sent letters
and in an unprecedented event,

510
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,720
they rescinded.
They rescinded the ban.

511
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,400
And wasn't it just like a 30 day
thing?

512
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,040
Like, wasn't it just like in 30
days we're going to?

513
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,560
Flooded in from kratom
advocates.

514
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,960
You know, this saved my life,
this saved my husband's life, my

515
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,280
daughter's life, etcetera.
So yeah, it it was a really cool

516
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,760
thing when it when it was like
they pulled, it was like, like,

517
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:54,240
yeah, pretty wild man.
But yeah, so anyhow, struggle

518
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,880
still goes on.
Grateful for the states that

519
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,320
have passed these creative
consumer protection acts and

520
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,200
that that many people are
looking at that as an

521
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,360
alternative to, to banning and
it it should be regulated.

522
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,920
It absolutely should be
regulated.

523
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,200
You know, people are consuming
this and, and many of them

524
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,040
consuming it regularly.
It's important that there's a

525
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,120
system of checks and balances
that when you buy something, you

526
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,000
know that what you're buying is
what you're consuming, that

527
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,920
you're able to make an educated
decision, that you're able to

528
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,280
know that this little shot
contains the same amount of

529
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,760
active alkaloids as a half pound
bag would.

530
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,760
You know, So those are those are
things people need to know.

531
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,320
You know, some of those super
potent shots.

532
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,240
If you don't know and someone
says try Kratom and you've read

533
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,360
all like, oh, this isn't, you
know, this is benign.

534
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,520
This is, you know, it's nice,
but it's not much.

535
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:59,880
But you take 1 little XXXX shot
and you've never had kratom and

536
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,320
you're like, Oh, no, that's,
that's drugs, man, because

537
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,480
drink, you know, it's if you
were to drink a bottle, a whole

538
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,840
bottle of Jack Daniels worth,
you know, as opposed to having a

539
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,200
beer or something.
But again, it's not like

540
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,880
alcohol.
For those that don't know, it's.

541
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,640
Not right?
Exactly.

542
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,360
Analogy.
You know, when you were saying

543
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,600
like, you know, like talking
about wanting to get more

544
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,400
regulation, you know, so many of
us in the community that that is

545
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,480
what we want.
We want to see more regulation.

546
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,360
I'm glad here in Texas we have
the Credit Consumer Protection

547
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Act and it's being adopted in
more states around the country,

548
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,200
I think is so important.
I was just on a news story on

549
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,440
NBC talking about my kratom
experience.

550
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,600
And it really sucks that they
show such a small amount.

551
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,520
They spent hours with me, OK,
hours.

552
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,680
And and they didn't really, they
didn't show this part, but the

553
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,560
correspondent at one point said
to me during the interview,

554
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,360
like, you know, how do you feel
about regulation?

555
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,840
And I said, me and my fellow
kratom consumers and advocates

556
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,840
are all for it.
We want to see more regulation.

557
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,600
We want to know what we're
purchasing is what it says it

558
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,199
is.
And I remember him going,

559
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,080
really, I was not expecting you
to say that.

560
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,520
Like I, I was like, no, we, we,
we want, we want regulation

561
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,719
because it's not FDA approved.
So you don't know.

562
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,080
We, although we know now that
doesn't always mean anything,

563
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,719
but, you know, we want to know
what we're consuming.

564
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,440
I remember when I first started,
you know, hearing about it on,

565
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,080
you know, learning about it and
then go into a Facebook group

566
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,000
and finding like, you know, how
to buy some from somebody.

567
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,920
And I remember when I first got
it, it was like, it is Ziploc

568
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,400
was sharpied with the name on
it, you know, and it wasn't

569
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,760
labeled like what we see today.
And that was just 2019.

570
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,199
So it wasn't, I mean, six years
ago, but that really in the

571
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,840
scheme of things wasn't really
that long ago.

572
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,440
And just to see the progression
of how packaging is changed and

573
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,040
how laws have come into place
and regulations to help with

574
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,560
that.
I love how packaging like tells

575
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,120
you everything as it should.
As it absolutely should.

576
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,600
Yeah.
You know, when I got in into

577
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,800
kratom at that time, I don't
know if it was common by 19, but

578
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,560
in 131415, so many of these bags
said not for human consumption,

579
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,560
which is horrible.
I mean, like, you know, that's

580
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,080
because because then that means
that the company can't tell you

581
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,480
anything.
Oh, should I consume the whole

582
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,320
bag?
No, obviously.

583
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,920
But yeah.
So anyhow, made a lot of

584
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:42,040
progress, still working on
progress and yeah, very hopeful

585
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,240
for the future.
I'm hopeful that.

586
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,640
We will.
A national kratom Consumer

587
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,960
Protection Act passed and and
have real regulation on a

588
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,360
national level.
And I think that if and when we

589
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,120
do and those laws are enforced,
I think that those who have been

590
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:05,320
staunch anti kratom advocates
will see, oh, wow, this, this.

591
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,320
Yeah, OK, this isn't such a big
deal.

592
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,720
And I think, you know, if you've
you've only read about it, what

593
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:19,720
not the perception of what it is
and in the way that it might

594
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:23,240
affect behavior, etcetera, is so
different than the reality.

595
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,560
You know, people that read these
articles and they're like, this

596
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,320
sounds terrifying.
What's funny is that they

597
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,560
probably know 5 to 10
functioning successful people

598
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,480
who are creating consumers.
But there's no, you know, you're

599
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,520
not some different person.
You might be in a better mood,

600
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,400
but you're not.
Altered.

601
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,240
Not intoxicated.
And if you read about it, you

602
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,560
would, you would think that you
were.

603
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:54,240
So, yeah, I, you know, I, I
think that'll also pave the way

604
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:59,040
for more people being open about
consuming kratom right now.

605
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,280
I think so many kratom consumers
don't want to tell people.

606
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,120
They don't want to tell their
friends and family because

607
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,600
they're going to say, oh, I read
about that, you know.

608
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,760
And so I hope and believe that
the regulation will help people

609
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,480
have the confidence to say,
yeah, this was really helpful

610
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,720
for me.
I've been a consumer for X

611
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:18,400
number of years, etcetera.
So.

612
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,040
I, I tell you what would be
helpful is when the FDA finally

613
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,800
publishes a single dose study
report that they've yet to

614
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,440
publish that says kratom is safe
at all doses.

615
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,680
And I, I just can't believe they
still have so much

616
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,280
misinformation on their website.
And everybody always looks at

617
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,120
that and say, oh, kratom is bad.
Yeah, yeah, that that study, you

618
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,400
know, they did up to 12 grams,
which we say standard, standard

619
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,040
serving is 3 grams.
Everybody, everybody is

620
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,000
different.
But if you know kratom, 12 grams

621
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,680
is a massive amount to consume
at one time.

622
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,480
That's.
And they had to do it in 5

623
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,640
minutes with there were
capsules.

624
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,840
All right, at once, not over the
course of time.

625
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,800
It was.
It was 12 grams all at once.

626
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,320
And adverse events, nausea.
Yeah.

627
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:12,200
Yeah, expected, expected.
If you drink 4, you know, 4 cups

628
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,440
of coffee in 5 minutes, you're
going to be pretty nauseous.

629
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,920
You're going to be pretty.
Exactly.

630
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,640
Yeah, it'll be nice when the FDA
finally, if they ever publish

631
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,880
that because it it dispels all
that misinformation on their

632
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,640
website about kratom, you know,
But I I love that you're such a

633
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,920
big advocate in the community.
You also, like myself, have won

634
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,160
the Hall of Fame award, American
Cream Association.

635
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,040
Congratulations.
Our pictures, we're right next

636
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,360
to each other.
I mean stay.

637
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,080
Probably somewhere, someday.
It's so cool because yeah, on

638
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,520
the AK as website, we're right
next to each other on that.

639
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,840
On the website.
I'll look that up.

640
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,160
That's cool.
Yeah, it was nice being, you

641
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,160
know, validated and appreciated
for, I mean, the people I know

642
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,560
that advocate like myself, we
don't do it for that.

643
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,600
You know, we do it because
kratom has helped us so much and

644
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,160
we are not afraid to speak out
about it and help educate

645
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,520
people.
We've educated so many people

646
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,000
through social media.
I've been able to with the

647
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,560
podcast and my crane community.
My TikTok does really well.

648
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,600
Even though we get censored a
lot, we get suppressed.

649
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,840
It doesn't stop me.
Like I'm still going to keep

650
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,520
advocating because I just feel
like it's so important because

651
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,360
like you were saying, there are
lots of people that are not

652
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:30,960
comfortable doing it.
I understand.

653
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,640
I totally get it.
But I try to tell people like

654
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,080
it's important for our message
to get out there.

655
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,280
It's important for people to
hear positive stories.

656
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,960
The, the NBC Nightly News story
that came out with me, they told

657
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,040
me up front they want to do both
sides.

658
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,000
So they're going to talk to
somebody on the other side.

659
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,760
And they were impressed with me
enough to like, I'll be, you

660
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,360
know, the positive side.
I'll send you the link to it.

661
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,200
But they, they really spun it
negatively because it's the

662
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,880
typical, oh, this mom's grown
son died.

663
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,400
They mentioned that it.
He had other drugs in the

664
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,480
system, but they really
downplayed it.

665
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,440
And it's like, but people like,
you know, I post on social media

666
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,360
and some people saw, oh, that
sounds dangerous.

667
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,800
And and they show my about me
not nearly as much information,

668
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,840
but like how it's helped me at
least he showed me making

669
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,400
kratom.
Like I was so excited.

670
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,120
They wanted like, footage of
that.

671
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,680
And they did put that on this
new story of me, you know,

672
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,360
pulling down the package and
mixing it up and drinking it.

673
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,000
It's like, that's pretty cool
because we don't see that too

674
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,360
often, you know, on, on, on
national news.

675
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,520
But it still felt like the
overall vibe was that kratom is,

676
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,480
you know, not safe.
And people have died from it.

677
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:51,160
And here I am talking about,
well, I've been assuming it for

678
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,960
six years for my chronic pain.
And it works way better than the

679
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,560
pharmaceuticals ever did.
So I'm going to always be

680
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,960
talking about it and trying to
help educate.

681
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,720
But still with putting that
report on my TikTok, some

682
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,080
people, you know, commented as
kratom consumers, No, we need to

683
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,880
not we got to be quiet because
they're just going to ban it.

684
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,360
If if we're talking about it,
we're they're going to ban it.

685
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,160
I just can't believe people
think like.

686
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,200
That no, we're way, way, way,
way past that, man.

687
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,720
That is that's people are aware
of it.

688
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:26,360
It's out there.
The negative is very out there.

689
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,280
And.
Very important for people who

690
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,840
are pro kratom to take a stance.
I would encourage you, you know,

691
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:40,640
if if you've been insecure about
sharing your story with friends

692
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,840
and family, I would encourage
you to do so.

693
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,160
Obviously that can be very
uncomfortable.

694
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,640
Everybody's situation is
different.

695
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,960
But if, if you don't feel that
there's going to be a real

696
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,040
negative action from the person,
I'd encourage people to share

697
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,200
it, you know, and to be
transparent and say, Hey,

698
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,160
listen, like this, this has
helped me, you know, and it has

699
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,200
plain and simple.
It's helped so many people.

700
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:16,080
And I, I think that that as we
move forward with regulation, if

701
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:19,280
in the situation as as you
mentioned there, there was,

702
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:24,160
there were multiple drugs in the
person system, but if there are

703
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,680
medical conditions that set for
the people that have those

704
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,160
should not consume kratom.
Well, we need to know that we

705
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,680
need to to have that knowledge
so that we can ethically present

706
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,800
it so that we can say, no, it's
probably not a good choice for

707
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,400
you.
And right now, when you

708
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,400
completely try to squash it,
when you completely try to say,

709
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,600
you know, that stagnates
research that that that prevents

710
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,800
us from getting the answers that
we desperately need as soon as

711
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,200
we possibly can get them.
So I would encourage those that

712
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,360
that are on the fence about
sharing it or speaking up to do

713
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,280
so because it's been very
helpful for a lot of people, you

714
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,560
know, and yeah.
It's an amazing plan.

715
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,000
I, I, when I think back to nine
years in pain management, taking

716
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,080
all these high-powered opioids.
Now, I never had any addiction

717
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,400
issues with it.
I, I was fine with that part.

718
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,640
But you know, it's all you know,
right?

719
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,720
The doctor prescribes it helps
with the pain.

720
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,080
It only helped me so much.
I have degenerative disc disease

721
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,640
in both my neck and back and it
is pretty debilitating.

722
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:29,880
And I would get some pain
relief.

723
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,760
Not great, but it was what it
was.

724
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,880
It gets some relief.
And when I lost access and

725
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,120
switched to kratom, I'm like, I
did not have high expectations

726
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,360
at all.
So I'm thinking there's just no

727
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,840
way a plant is going to be as
effective as pharmaceutical

728
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,160
opioids.
And I was so pleasantly

729
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,120
surprised once I got through the
trial and error.

730
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,040
I was one of those where I took
a little trial and error with

731
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,880
the color and the dose, but in,
in within a few weeks, once I

732
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,360
had it all figured out and what
was working best for me, it

733
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,640
worked way better than my pain
meds ever did.

734
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,000
And it literally makes my pain
level go to a 0, which is just

735
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,920
insane.
And very few people say that.

736
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,600
So many people say, Oh yeah,
brings my pain for, for those of

737
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,280
us in chronic, you know, chronic
pain patients, they'll say,

738
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,560
yeah, brings it down to like A5
or 4I rarely find somebody that

739
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,080
says it's super low like me, but
I take it every six hours and as

740
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,600
long as I stay on the schedule,
I get amazing relief and I'm

741
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,240
thrilled.
It's a plant and it's just, you

742
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,440
know, but also when you're
talking about like the

743
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,440
importance of, of crane
consumers to speak out and get

744
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,560
more comfortable with it.
When I first started, I wasn't

745
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,280
as comfortable mentioning it to
doctors.

746
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,240
But over time I got more
comfortable.

747
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,240
And my primary care physician,
I've been going to for the last

748
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:47,960
three years.
I told her from day one when I

749
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,560
started going because I'm more
comfortable at that point and

750
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,000
she didn't know anything about
it, which is what seems to be

751
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,040
very common when I talk to
anybody in the medical

752
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,480
profession.
They're like, they don't even

753
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,000
know what it is.
And I make a point whenever I

754
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,200
see her to bring it up.
It's something as commonly

755
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,840
consumed as it is, is completely
unknown and just the gap, the

756
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:18,520
time gap between, you know, the
medical profession and the

757
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:25,280
natural world is notable.
And I it's, it's a gap that we

758
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:30,200
can close over the coming years.
And but anyhow, you're, you're

759
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,480
fully transparent.
And she's learned, and she she.

760
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,440
She's learned about that, but
she also, because I was going in

761
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,720
the beginning, I was going like
every six months and we'd always

762
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:41,280
do labs and stuff and everything
was always great.

763
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,880
And I would always make a point
to just remind her that, you

764
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,000
know, I consume this because you
know, in the my chart at at, she

765
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,920
knows all the stuff I used to
take.

766
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,720
It shows all my medical
condition stuff.

767
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,840
So she knows, but her experience
with me is that my pain relief

768
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,360
is through her plant.
So in the last year or so when I

769
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,720
go see her, she's like, she's
really because she's getting to

770
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:06,000
know me more for interactions.
She's I think she seemed like,

771
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,640
wow, this lady takes a plant,
not pharmaceuticals anymore.

772
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,760
And every time I see her, she's
doing great and her labs are

773
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,200
always great.
So on a recent visit she said

774
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,840
keep doing what you're doing
because it works like she was

775
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,640
really.
And I think if more people got

776
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,680
comfortable talking to people,
whether it's family members,

777
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,400
friends and medical
professionals, I think through

778
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,720
in our interactions, they will
see how much this helps us.

779
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,680
Yeah, agreed.
So I think that's so important.

780
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,640
This has been such a great
interview with you, Jeremy.

781
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,480
I'm so glad we had the time to
do this.

782
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,960
My last question for you is,
knowing everything you know now

783
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,920
about kratom, what advice would
you give to someone helping them

784
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,240
get started in their own
journey?

785
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,800
Yeah, do your research.
Less is more with kratom, you

786
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,200
know it does, especially when
you're consuming the natural

787
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,680
plant.
There may be a period of time 15

788
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:09,000
to up to 45 minutes.
Another thing is if you are

789
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:15,960
using it for focus even more
less is more because I think all

790
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,440
of us that are that are creating
consumers for that have learned

791
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,040
that lesson that oh, I feel
super sharp.

792
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,400
I'm going to take take some
more.

793
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:30,080
Nope, it'll bummer.
So yeah, you know, less more

794
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,920
know what you're consuming.
Make sure to buy from a

795
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,160
reputable vendor.
I always suggest buy from an

796
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,880
AKAGMP vendor.
I'm sure there are others, but

797
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,080
if you do, you know that their
facility has been audited.

798
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,080
You have good reason to believe
that what it says on the package

799
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,360
is what's inside.
And it's very important to know,

800
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:59,080
you know, in general about 4434
grams of kratom is going to have

801
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,160
about 50 milligrams of
metrajenine, which is generally

802
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:09,160
regarded as a serving.
So if you are buying an extract

803
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,960
product, make sure you know how
much metrajenine is in there

804
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:18,320
because it, it could be up to,
you know, 25 grams worth, which

805
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,840
is 7 plus standard servings
kratom.

806
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,760
So read the label, less is more.
Good luck.

807
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,760
Drink plenty of water.
Yes, lots of our stay hydrated.

808
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,760
This is such great advice.
And your website is 1836

809
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,440
kratom.com.
I'll link to that with this

810
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,360
episode as well.
Thank you, Jeremy for spending.

811
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,320
Time grab something there.
There's also 1836 fitness.com

812
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,120
that does sell direct on that
one.

813
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,000
So right, right, right.
OK, absolutely.

814
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,120
I'll put both links in there.
Thank you so much, Jeremy.

815
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,520
Appreciate this so much.
All right, have a great day.